Electric Bill

luv2increase

VistaHead
why all of a sudden the concern for those that may not be financial as well off as you, and have to actually be concerned about their utility bills?

For those who know me in real life and who have bought stuff off me from the EVGA marketplace, you will see that I care for people and want the best for them and to be able to experience a great time without suffering.  I care about people.  It is just how I am.  It certainly is "not" a character trait that is flawed.  It is one that many strive for and is deamed very desirable in society.

Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

luv2increase

For those who know me in real life and who have bought stuff off me from the EVGA marketplace, you will see that I care for people and want the best for them and to be able to experience a great time without suffering. I care about people. It is just how I am. It certainly is "not" a character trait that is flawed. It is one that many strive for and is deamed very desirable in society.

Sounds like an ati fan hallmark card moment.

Nahte27
1. If you set your thermostat to turn off during the day (when most people are not at home) and then come back on an hour before you get home, you can save energy. It take less energy to cool a house later than it does to keep a house cool all day (especially during the heat of the day). But, according to you "it just isn't done, period" so what do I know

I'm sorry, but that is not how it works.  It is the exact inverse of what you are saying.  I thought this was something that every human being knew?  :(

master of the universe

VistaHead
Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

ATI seems to be pretty efficient with power usage on their 5000 series.

Look at how big of a difference there is between the 5870 and 480.

http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22204.png
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22207.png

rjohnson11

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the TDP of the GTX 480 is 250 watts whereas the TDP of a GTX295 is about 289 watts I believe. I really don't care what the other websites are saying I believe this is what NVIDIA has stated. So if you are comfortable with your electric bill of a GTX 295 then a GTX 480 should be about the same or less.

While I see your point, I think the answer is a little deeper as many of us will want to run these in SLI.  Then the question shifts to if your ok with running the equilivant of two 295's, that's a lot of power. 

VistaHead

luv2increase

VistaHead
why all of a sudden the concern for those that may not be financial as well off as you, and have to actually be concerned about their utility bills?

For those who know me in real life and who have bought stuff off me from the EVGA marketplace, you will see that I care for people and want the best for them and to be able to experience a great time without suffering.  I care about people.  It is just how I am.  It certainly is "not" a character trait that is flawed.  It is one that many strive for and is deamed very desirable in society.

Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

Excuse me but the 5870s are VERY VERY VERY energy efficient.  I never ever ever recommended anyone to ever buy 3 x 5870s, period.  Please provide me the link.

edit:  I'm sorry but you cannot even compare the energy efficiency of the 480 to the 5870 so I really don't even see what your point is.  The whole post resembles something from the twilight zone to be quite honest.

plastictree

VistaHead
Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

ATI seems to be pretty efficient with power usage on their 5000 series.
Look at how big of a difference there is between the 5870 and 480.
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22204.png
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22207.png

Thanks.  I knew that.  Luv knows and understands what I am asking him.

I am late to this party.. But just wanted to add this. In this post I made a similar OMG... In response to this thread...

I Fold... So it is of concern to me. Not because of one card... But because I historically buy a lot of the current gen cards through the year and end up with 3-5 systems running at all times... Running 4-6 of these at a time will be about $100-250 extra a month in my bill. I want to contribute... It is likely I will still do it anyway. All I am saying is this potentially may keep me from doing what I normally do, and just keep with my current plan to wait for the 2nd version of these bad-boys this fall/winter...

So the extra heat... No big deal.. Water-block are the only true solution for me wants and needs... Easy one...

But the actual power usage according to that pic in the thread I linked above..... Concerns me greatly. I have no idea if it is true.. I am only spreading the rumor. Nothing more. When the facts come in then we will know.

VistaHead

plastictree

VistaHead
Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

ATI seems to be pretty efficient with power usage on their 5000 series.
Look at how big of a difference there is between the 5870 and 480.
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22204.png
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22207.png

Thanks.  I knew that.  Luv knows and understands what I am asking him.

No I do not.  I never recommended anyone to buy 3 x 5870s.  The 5870 is an EXTREMELY energy efficient card.  You cannot fault me for me recommending someone to buy the 5870 on a power consumption standpoint.  Do you think the 5870 is not power efficient as well?  That is the only way what you said would make sense, but we all know that is not the case.

This is getting blown way out of proportion.  Even at 90 degrees from the card/computer, it's not going to make your room hot.  How big is your room, 4'x4'? 

Concerned with your electric bill? lol.  If someone's running 3x295's in SLI - how come you didn't raise this point when the 295's came out and people wanted to SLI them.  Nonetheless, sure, there's going to be more heat dissipation, but really, it's not going to turn your room into a sauna.

I'll tell you what, when I get my GTX 480, I'll re-enable my UPS software and it'll let me know exactly how many Watts I'm using idle/load and I'll let you know.  Right now, as I've said before in previous threads, my system (with the GTX280 XXX) idles at around 237 W and with load is at 270 W.  Seeing that the GTX 480 is pretty much double, my guess is the total Wattage would be in the upper 300 W.

i think a higher electric bill is a pretty ridiculous argument against 480 and 470.

#1. you arent running your computer 24/7
#2. when running your computer you arent running the gpus at load the 100% of the time
#3. seems like quite a few people are running multiple gpus, i am running 3 myself, so they are already sucking massive amounts of power.
#4. i really think that now people are just nitpicking.

luv2increase

VistaHead

plastictree

VistaHead
Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

ATI seems to be pretty efficient with power usage on their 5000 series.
Look at how big of a difference there is between the 5870 and 480.
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22204.png
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22207.png

Thanks.  I knew that.  Luv knows and understands what I am asking him.

No I do not.  I never recommended anyone to buy 3 x 5870s.  The 5870 is an EXTREMELY energy efficient card.  You cannot fault me for me recommending someone to buy the 5870 on a power consumption standpoint.  Do you think the 5870 is not power efficient as well?  That is the only way what you said would make sense, but we all know that is not the case.

Then since you do not understand, I will briefly explain.  I never mentioned anything about you recommending anyone buy three of anything.  While yes, the 5870 is more energy efficient, it is still not one of the lower end power usage cards, and I just don't remember you ever starting a thread about the electricity usage of the card in regards to the impact of running multiple cards on one's electric bill, yet you choose to do just that with the Nvidia card.  What I don't understand is why you would post a thread like this which can very easily be perceived as bashing the card.  Let's not play coy games here....you, along with most members of this forum are fully aware of the many threads that turned into ATI vs. Nvidia flame wars, and you were extensively involved in quite a few of them, therefore, can you honestly say that you can see no way that this thread could be considered as bashing the card?

luv2increase

I have been putting a lot of serious thought into the GTX470 & GTX480.  I have read all the reviews and analyzed a lot of the data.  We all now know that Fermi is a hot card and uses a lot of power.  However, what are the realistic downsides to this?  The only thing I have been hearing is that it will cause the temperature in your room to be hotter.  That is a given. 

This brings me to a new concern as a result of the heat production of the card.  This concern is the cost associated with running the card in your computer system?  I do realize that many of us here already have 850W and greater PSUs and put them to good use, but can we really afford to push the limits even further?

I think a good review would be for someone to calculate the cost of running a single and multi-GPU GTX480 setup.  After you install the card(s), calculate the differences over a few month period of time to that of what your bill was the year prior in that same period of time.

The real cost is not only $100 more than the HD5870, but those GTX480 adopters will also incurr higher electric bills which could add up to a whole heck of a lot very quickly.  I'm guessing that the cost of running the cards compared to an = # GPU 5870 setup will be $30 - $50 a month extra.  That means in two months, there would be a $200 difference in the price of the GTX480 compared to the HD5870.  In a year, the GTX480 gamer will pay an extra ~$600 compared to the HD5870 owner.


DISCUSS....


edit:  The figures are guestimates for someone who games A LOT which I'm sure many here obviously do.

thats the very reason I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on this batch, bling is one thing but overall cost is another..

i know when i moved in with my girl now my wife her bill shot up 70bucks the first month with my system..Tho i am not concerned with the electric bill..its the redicluois heat this card will spit out..That is why i will most likely stick with ati..Infact you can overclock a hd 5870 and be on the same lvl of performance as fermi..not in tessellation but i guess right now that does not matter..

Fermi could be a fantastic future card if they can do something about the heat in the future..right now temps are stupidly to high..i can see alot of rma's happening

VistaHead

luv2increase

VistaHead

plastictree

VistaHead
Then where is your thread expressing the same electricity usage concerns for those less fortunate when you started running your multiple 5870 ATI cards?  If I missed it, please provide me the link.

ATI seems to be pretty efficient with power usage on their 5000 series.
Look at how big of a difference there is between the 5870 and 480.
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22204.png
http://images.anandtech.c...032610115215/22207.png

Thanks.  I knew that.  Luv knows and understands what I am asking him.

No I do not.  I never recommended anyone to buy 3 x 5870s.  The 5870 is an EXTREMELY energy efficient card.  You cannot fault me for me recommending someone to buy the 5870 on a power consumption standpoint.  Do you think the 5870 is not power efficient as well?  That is the only way what you said would make sense, but we all know that is not the case.

Then since you do not understand, I will briefly explain.  I never mentioned anything about you recommending anyone buy three of anything.  While yes, the 5870 is more energy efficient, it is still not one of the lower end power usage cards, and I just don't remember you ever starting a thread about the electricity usage of the card in regards to the impact of running multiple cards on one's electric bill, yet you choose to do just that with the Nvidia card.  What I don't understand is why you would post a thread like this which can very easily be perceived as bashing the card.  Let's not play coy games here....you, along with most members of this forum are fully aware of the many threads that turned into ATI vs. Nvidia flame wars, and you were extensively involved in quite a few of them, therefore, can you honestly say that you can see no way that this thread could be considered as bashing the card?

Power nor heat is a concern with 5870.  It never has been nor will be.  You can't attribute that argument to the 5870, hence the reason why I never brought it up.  The 5870 doesn't use that much power.  When we talk about power consumption and heat in reviews, we usually are talking about 1 to 1 as in 1 5870 to 1 480.

Can I apply here what I have said about the 480 as it relates to heat and power to the 5870?  No.  End of story.  The 5870 runs cool, isn't loud at all and doesn't draw a lot of current.  I don't know what you are trying to get at here.  It just looks like you are trying to make something out of nothing.

If it was Energy star approved it would qualify for a Heating 500.00 Tax credit

evolove34

i think a higher electric bill is a pretty ridiculous argument against 480 and 470.

#1. you arent running your computer 24/7
#2. when running your computer you arent running the gpus at load the 100% of the time
#3. seems like quite a few people are running multiple gpus, i am running 3 myself, so they are already sucking massive amounts of power.
#4. i really think that now people are just nitpicking.

Nitpicking? is anyone here worried about 80-90c load temps..i would never get a card to game with that hits that kinda heat.it would never last. its not nitpicking its got people worried..and what about folks who want to sli..just think of 3 of them grills in a system if them temps are true..wow even running 2 would worry me with temps like that..66c is about what im willing to game at on air..ati cards never even get that hot even with heavy voltage overclocks..granted fan is at 55%..my guess is turning gtx 480 fan to 100% wont bring them temps to 70c

luv2increase
Power nor heat is a concern with 5870.  It never has been nor will be.  You can't attribute that argument to the 5870, hence the reason why I never brought it up.  The 5870 doesn't use that much power.  When we talk about power consumption and heat in reviews, we usually are talking about 1 to 1 as in 1 5870 to 1 480.
Can I apply here what I have said about the 480 as it relates to heat and power to the 5870?  No.  End of story.  The 5870 runs cool, isn't loud at all and doesn't draw a lot of current.  I don't know what you are trying to get at here.  It just looks like you are trying to make something out of nothing.

Luv, all I am saying is....from a historical standpoint, I wish that you had not posted this thread.  It's all good.  No harm, no foul.

vista head fighting luv2 is like fighting a brick wall only i think a brick wall does better at the command stay ;)


hes not an ati fanboi hes a troll looking for a fight

^^^ where have you been?  It's been a while since you posted, has it not (or have I missed them)?

yes it HAS been a while howve you been? i thought you would of broken luv2 by now but i see hes at his usual trolling

NVIDIA wouldn't have released them if they thought they wouldn't be reliable.  They're QA approved.  I'm not worried, and apparently neither is NVIDIA.  Otherwise, they would have not put the cards on the market.

NASA's space shuttle churns out a lot of heat, but they too have got materials that handle those types of temperatures.

A few things missing the mark here, the card will run a lot cooler once the fan is cranked up. The arguement of the added noise level from a higher running fan is weak at best. I say this because anyone who has played with fan speeds knows there is a happy middle ground between acceptable noise level & desired temps.

Another thing is even if you do end up leaving the fan as is & the card reaches 90c, this is far from the temp being expelled from the rear of your case. Take a readin & see for yourself, I did this experiement last summer & just repeated it again to comfirm. My GTX 295 FTW tops out at 71c (keep in mind all the drama of people claiming this card to be a power hungry flame thrower when it was first released) but the air out the rear of the case measured around 47c while the air from my CPU cooler was at 32c.

The required power supplies for the 400 series are much smaller then what is found in most high end gaming computers already so there is no super deal breaker there either.

The card was deigned to compete against the gaming performance potential of the 5870 & it does that well,anything outside of that is just nitpicking at best. Either way to all the negative vibes people are trying to spread on these cards, it seams vendors can't keep them on the shelves so it would seem what one considers to be a deal breaker others view as no big deal. i do however notice that most of the people fighting against this card are flying red flags.......

hey how do i post my BC2 sig? or how to even get one? also ill be back later gotta go to work to pay off the 480 im awaiting XD

Nex_Lupus
yes it HAS been a while howve you been? i thought you would of broken luv2 by now but i see hes at his usual trolling

I am fine .....welcome back....good to see that you are still here!  LOL...forum members are forum members...like life itself, it takes all kinds to be well rounded.

Well, I personally think the power/electricity concern is a valid issue.  GTX 470/480's power consumption under both idle and load are clearly disappointing and a step backward from what the GT200 series brought, particularly with power savings while idle. 

I guess part of it is the shock of seeing how much more power GTX 480 consumes under both idle and load, but I think the real shock is that the 2nd card is fully scaling where in the past, Nvidia has typically shown considerable power savings in multi-GPU configs.  So this time around, that 250W TDP is a very real indicator of its power draw, where in the past, it might've been overstated.  GTX 280 rated TDP @ 236W for example is actually closer to 200W in practice.  So that extra 50W TDP is a real 50W, and in SLI, its a real 100W.

How this translates to your power bill should be relatively easy to calculate, I'm sure there's power calculators on various sites but for me, its like running an extra 100W lightbulb while you game and a 40W lightbulb when you're not, all year round.  In the summer time, you need to factor in the additional cost of air conditioning, if you have central air this may cost more, if you have a room unit or multiple condenser units you may be able to localize cooling a bit to save on overall costs. 

I personally know for a fact, an extra 100W lightbulb in my gaming room is going to lead to considerably more discomfort unless I crank up central air, which will increase my overall cooling costs.  Otherwise, I'd have to look into a window cooling unit, which is going to reduce temperature discomfort, but simultaneous increase noise pollution and discomfort.  Your actual situation may vary of course, depending on what you're running now.

That's why I'm looking at 2x470 in SLI over 2x480 SLI, I'm willing to deal with another 15-20W, 70-100W......no.  Honestly just test it out yourself if you're unsure, put a 100W lamp next to your PC and run it whenever you game.  Even my 40-60W energy efficient bulbs get turned off when I game...its noticeable.
 
Edit: and on the flipside with cooling as others pointed out, there's heating savings in the winter, but winter is over, and I can always put on a snuggie in the winter when I'm cold.....

I know there is a noticeable difference in my power bill because of my rig. my 295 eats up some power. when Nexus Phase and I were roommates 2 oc'd systems with each with a 295? we had $300 a month E-bills there were 2 garbage systems on some times and my current roommates decent dual core/9800gtx rig. after we both got 295 our E-bill went up over $100  month from before we had them. It adds up but......I game therefor I.....dont.......give......a.......flying........manatee about the power bill, itll get paid. Right now my bill in a smaller place with less people and only one 295 is only $100 a month

sledgehammer70

Maybe $50 a month if you have your PC running at full load for 30 days. In general if you game lets say 4-5 days a week at 5 hours per day. The overall break down might be $12-$15 more per month.

You don't buy a $500+ GPU to be worried about your power bill or even power consumption. The whole break down of power being a purchase factor is beyond stupid. But hey if that is your deal go jump on the "being green" bandwagon and buy a 6200 card & a atom CPU.

I used to believe that. But really, they should have been more power efficiency since the gap against the 5870 is tiny.

Being a 500 + item does not justify ridiculous power requirements.

I think another valid concern for people who upgrade every 3-4ish years like me is long term reliability.  High temperatures are not friends of silicon.  It will be interesting to see if there are problems with these cards down the road.

One thing I might point out concerning folding and power usage is the Nvidia cards are far better in terms of performance. We'll have to wait and see for some PPD numbers but it would not surprise me to see that a 480 is more efficient per watt folding than ATI.

Top-Ace

I think another valid concern for people who upgrade every 3-4ish years like me is long term reliability.  High temperatures are not friends of silicon.  It will be interesting to see if there are problems with these cards down the road.

If you're in that boat, just buy from any of the at least 3 Nvidia partners that offer limited lifetime warranty, if available in your region.

domination.
just in case you dont know what n-queens is, its a problem in a chess game with n number queens so that none of the queens can capture another. when you start using serious gpgpu algorithms and data structures this is what happens.

rjohnson11

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but the TDP of the GTX 480 is 250 watts whereas the TDP of a GTX295 is about 289 watts I believe. I really don't care what the other websites are saying I believe this is what NVIDIA has stated. So if you are comfortable with your electric bill of a GTX 295 then a GTX 480 should be about the same or less.

1 480 peaks at 320W in furmark which is the same as 1 295 and under gaming 1 480 will use about 40W more than 1 295.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_480_Fermi/30.html

luv2increase

Well, I witnessed first hand what 3 x 5870s did to my whole living room.  You talk about toasty.  Now, if my 5870 ran at 90 + degrees C, I think I'd go crazy.  Seeming that the 3 x 5870s hovered around 70C whilst gaming, I would say that a single 480 with its fan cranked up to 80% running at 90C+ would be about = to 3 x 5870s in the heat department.

I couldn't imagine 2 x 480s.  It would be:

1. Loud
2. Create higher electric bill
3. Create a toasty room or whole house level the PC is in

Sigh...this is where you make the same mistake again. It doesn't matter if the GPU is 80C or 90C, it's the total amount in watts dissipated in  the room. 3 5870's  at full load would dissipate 564 watts. 2 480's would dissipate 500 watts at full load. Thus in YOUR scenario, ATI GPU's would heat up the room more. Your other claim of just ONE 480 equaling 3 5870's in heat is just plain utter nonsense given the facts as I just stated. I hope this cleared up your confusion.

luv2increase

Nahte27
1. If you set your thermostat to turn off during the day (when most people are not at home) and then come back on an hour before you get home, you can save energy. It take less energy to cool a house later than it does to keep a house cool all day (especially during the heat of the day). But, according to you "it just isn't done, period" so what do I know

I'm sorry, but that is not how it works.  It is the exact inverse of what you are saying.  I thought this was something that every human being knew?  :(

First of all, thank you for totally disregarding the rest of my post. The parts that really mattered.

Secondly, a quick Google search would have shown you that you (and according to you, every human being) is wrong.

Source #1
And, you can save a lot of money by completely turning off your A/C during the day. Many people think that this actually wastes energy, since your unit has to work harder to cool things off once you get home.

Source #2
"If you're working eight hours a day, why air-condition your house while you're away?" says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE. Upon returning home, Kielich says, "Pick a temperature that's comfortable and stick with it."

Source #3
It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC removes all that heat.

I suppose you would know this if you had done your research, but I suppose we all learn something new every day!

luv2increase

People are forgetting that not everyone has limitless funds.  People are forgetting that the economy is a disaster right now.  People are forgetting that the unemployment rate is at its highest ever.

This thread may have not made sense 3-4 years ago when things were full-steam ahead, but today we have problems.  Consumers are trying to cut cost at all corners.  Consumers are starting to buy with more caution instead of on impulse.  Like it or not, this is reality.

Less and less people are buying gas hungry vehicles today for this very reason.  They figure the cost of fuel and insurance is going to amount to a lot OVER THE LONG RUN. 

This is the world we live in.


EDIT: Did I mention that those of us who live in the US are going to see skyrocketing heating and cooling bill over the next few years?  We are.  Electricity bills do matter.  I am assuming that many of you who don't think this is a concern are those who don't pay your own electricity bill yet.  Please correct me if I am wrong.

I totally agree with you. But at the same time i am making sacrifices to be able to relax a bit and enjoy 2x 480's and a 980 :P. Selling my M5 and picking up a prius. That way i save on payments and on GAs! Give up one pleasure for another :P

Nahte27

luv2increase

Nahte27
1. If you set your thermostat to turn off during the day (when most people are not at home) and then come back on an hour before you get home, you can save energy. It take less energy to cool a house later than it does to keep a house cool all day (especially during the heat of the day). But, according to you "it just isn't done, period" so what do I know

I'm sorry, but that is not how it works.  It is the exact inverse of what you are saying.  I thought this was something that every human being knew?  :(

First of all, thank you for totally disregarding the rest of my post. The parts that really mattered.

Secondly, a quick Google search would have shown you that you (and according to you, every human being) is wrong.

Source #1
And, you can save a lot of money by completely turning off your A/C during the day. Many people think that this actually wastes energy, since your unit has to work harder to cool things off once you get home.

Source #2
"If you're working eight hours a day, why air-condition your house while you're away?" says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE. Upon returning home, Kielich says, "Pick a temperature that's comfortable and stick with it."

Source #3
It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC removes all that heat.

I suppose you would know this if you had done your research, but I suppose we all learn something new every day!

It really depends on where you live.  When I lived in Tempe, AZ, there is no way you could ever turn off the AC in the spring through fall time besides maybe in the middle of the night in the spring and fall only.  If you turned your AC off in the day, you'd come home to a house that is > 100F.  To cool that down while it is still 115F outside to 70F is a HUGE hit on your electric bill.  If you live in the midwest where I live now, this would be somewhat feasible seeming it doesn't get too hot in the summer, and it is cool at night.  Due to this, when you did arrive home late in the day, it would be 80F - 90F outside and probably 80F - 90F inside so it wouldn't be too hard for the AC to cool the house to 70F.

It depends on where you live really, but I shouldn't have made the comment about thinking everyone knew that. :(

chumbucket843

Now that right there is what I'm talking about!!!  For those of us who are comparing the 5870 to the 480 in GPGPU apps, the 480 will win every time, and that is one of the main reasons I am buying two of 'em.

Nex_Lupus

yes it HAS been a while howve you been? i thought you would of broken luv2 by now but i see hes at his usual trolling

Lets watch the personal attacks.  Everyone seems to behaving.

The concern is how fast it ramps up to 95 degrees. With the recent driver bug, the temp will result in an insta kill situation for the card.

shouldn't change too much tbh. maybe a good $20 more?

flamingaxe791

welcome back lol

LOL!   +1               

blue5

The concern is how fast it ramps up to 95 degrees. With the recent driver bug, the temp will result in an insta kill situation for the card.

That wouldn't be my main concern actually....given I can simulate the exact same thing with my GTX 280's running Furmark if I leave the fan on AUTO.  My concern would be if it runs at 90+C in actual games even if I set the fanspeed to 70% proactively. 

You know, I could add three more 450W Mercury Vapor lamps to my aquariums, running 10-12 hours a day, and not add but half as much as y'all seem to think the GTXs will cost over and above the ATIs...

I know some of you like Chizow want to go 3D with more LCD's to think about as that was something i had to look at when going eyefinity and it worked out for me going from a HP 2207 that eat 65watts alone and the HD4890 thats around 227watts ..
 
The new LCD'S eat 32watts apiece and i have 3 of them so with the 5850 eating 150watts it will come out to about the same or alittle less and this is where it really pays off if i can add two more LCD's at my same old power useage and the light bill is still the same as it was.

I have an ATI 4890 and it is screaming through every game I throw at it. No need to upgrade at all.
However, it gets pretty hot if the fan is left at silent (35%). I run t at 50-55% upon heavy gaming.
My comp is in a basement room, the coolest room in the house.
After 2.5-3 hours of gaming and GPU fan at 55% I am sweating. The room gets so warm that I have to turn on the airconditioner of the entire house. I am planning to buy one for the room only. 
If my 4890 is able to warm the entire room for 3 hours, running only at 54C, I cannot imagine what with happen running 480 at 95C and full 100% fan.
This seems to me ridiculous. Many peeps will suffer, or maybe just slim down =D

Anyways, when you get one tell us what is the feeling like.

50 dollars a month jump is a bit overestimated, youd probly see maybe  5 dollar difference from a 5870, max of 10 bucks a month diff. still adds up. it depends on if you can afford it, no matter what you buy, you will have to have the electricity to use it, so your stilling gonna bump your bill. just think, your gtx285 still sucks about 225 watts on its own....... so the 480 is only about 100 watts over that. its not gonna destroy your electric bill.... but may increase it slightly. all the more reason paintball is better than gaming XD lol jkjk. but seriously, paint may be expensive (speaking of paintballs), but if your careful with your paint and dont dump paint like xballers do XD (no offense xballers!) then youd be alright. i find paintballing more realistic than most games, but each to there own. i was an avid gamer, but im not much into games anymore.

btw not EVERYONE works full time or normal full time

take garbage men for example full time workers

only work in the morning to afternoon to come home to a HOT house

or the pizza delivery guy you JUST jipped off cause you all are cheap penny pinches ;) doesnt go into work till 5pm so is stuck in a HOT house most of the day

Card      Idle W  Load W  Time Idle  Time Load   W Hours      kWHours     1 Month     1 Year
GTX 295    167     487           4              20            10408          10.41          36.59      445.18
GTX 480    146     450           4              20              9584           9.58           33.69      409.94
ATI 5970   142     444           4              20              9448           9.45           33.22      404.12
GTX 285    140     375           4              20              8060           8.06           28.34      344.75
GTX 470    127     368           4              20              7868           7.87           27.66      336.54
ATI 5870   115     317           4              20              6800           6.80           23.91      290.86
ATI 5850   114     280           4              20              6056           6.06           21.29      259.03

So current cost of owning a 5870 over 1 year is (purchasing an XFX 5870):
$419.99 + $290.86 = $710.85

GTX 480 over 1 year (EVGA GTX 480):
$499.99 + $445.18 = $945.17

That means if you game like a literal maniac, that is 20 hours under load EVERYDAY, you will spend $234.32 more over the year.  That means you are spending $19.52 a month more to use it than a 5870.  This is the most EXTREME example I could come up with outside of a 24/7 Folding machine.

For me it would cost $119.44 a year at $9.95 a month (I don't game as much as I used to and I leave my computer idle while I cook/clean/etc, I turn it off going to work) over owning a single 5870.

Just a facts to chew on for all parties.  I do this kind of thing for anything I'm looking at buying.  Gotta keep those bills reasonable so I can keep using my toys :)  I do not live in an environment that requires significant cooling.  If you live in a place that is REALLY hot, you have my condolences on ANY GPU cooling you have to do.

yay +1 for my estamation on price increase over 5870, as far as casual gaming goes! and im assuming those wattage consumptions are based on the base system + the graphics card mentioned....

airddragon

Card      Idle W  Load W  Time Idle  Time Load   W Hours      kWHours     1 Month     1 Year
GTX 295    167     487           4              20            10408          10.41          36.59      445.18
GTX 480    146     450           4              20              9584           9.58           33.69      409.94
ATI 5970   142     444           4              20              9448           9.45           33.22      404.12
GTX 285    140     375           4              20              8060           8.06           28.34      344.75
GTX 470    127     368           4              20              7868           7.87           27.66      336.54
ATI 5870   115     317           4              20              6800           6.80           23.91      290.86
ATI 5850   114     280           4              20              6056           6.06           21.29      259.03

So current cost of owning a 5870 over 1 year is (purchasing an XFX 5870):
$419.99 + $290.86 = $710.85

GTX 480 over 1 year (EVGA GTX 480):
$499.99 + $445.18 = $945.17

That means if you game like a literal maniac, that is 20 hours under load EVERYDAY, you will spend $234.32 more over the year.  That means you are spending $19.52 a month more to use it than a 5870.  This is the most EXTREME example I could come up with outside of a 24/7 Folding machine.

For me it would cost $119.44 a year at $9.95 a month (I don't game as much as I used to and I leave my computer idle while I cook/clean/etc, I turn it off going to work) over owning a single 5870.

Just a facts to chew on for all parties.  I do this kind of thing for anything I'm looking at buying.  Gotta keep those bills reasonable so I can keep using my toys :)  I do not live in an environment that requires significant cooling.  If you live in a place that is REALLY hot, you have my condolences on ANY GPU cooling you have to do.

Your figures are off, since the 5870 has been proven to draw 367watts when under load as seen on hardocp.com so the figures for that card needs to be adjusted. This would put it right in line with the gtx470 as far as power consumption goes or 419.99 + 335.63 = $755.62. Give it just a few months once the other 400 series cards release & you should see the price of the 480GTX drop a little as well but at present you're talking about a $189.55 price difference between the two cards spread out over a year or an extra $3.95 a week (less then what you would waste on junk food or coffee on an average week).
 
Let's also look at the difference in temp that people seem to also be stretching the truth out of. Hardocp.com got the GTX 480 up to 95c during testing but was able to get the 5870 up to 86c under the same test. So everyone is making noise over a 9c difference?
 
So in the end the big noise is over less then $4.00 a week & 9c????

airddragon

Card      Idle W  Load W  Time Idle  Time Load   W Hours      kWHours     1 Month     1 Year
GTX 295    167     487           4              20            10408          10.41          36.59      445.18
GTX 480    146     450           4              20              9584           9.58           33.69      409.94
ATI 5970   142     444           4              20              9448           9.45           33.22      404.12
GTX 285    140     375           4              20              8060           8.06           28.34      344.75
GTX 470    127     368           4              20              7868           7.87           27.66      336.54
ATI 5870   115     317           4              20              6800           6.80           23.91      290.86
ATI 5850   114     280           4              20              6056           6.06           21.29      259.03

So current cost of owning a 5870 over 1 year is (purchasing an XFX 5870):
$419.99 + $290.86 = $710.85

GTX 480 over 1 year (EVGA GTX 480):
$499.99 + $445.18 = $945.17

That means if you game like a literal maniac, that is 20 hours under load EVERYDAY, you will spend $234.32 more over the year.  That means you are spending $19.52 a month more to use it than a 5870.  This is the most EXTREME example I could come up with outside of a 24/7 Folding machine.

For me it would cost $119.44 a year at $9.95 a month (I don't game as much as I used to and I leave my computer idle while I cook/clean/etc, I turn it off going to work) over owning a single 5870.

Just a facts to chew on for all parties.  I do this kind of thing for anything I'm looking at buying.  Gotta keep those bills reasonable so I can keep using my toys :)  I do not live in an environment that requires significant cooling.  If you live in a place that is REALLY hot, you have my condolences on ANY GPU cooling you have to do.

Thanks for the graph I should be cutting down on my power bill then going from 2-3x 280 GTX FTW's in sli/tri sli down to a single 480 GTX gpu, I am not worried about my power bill but its nice to know around the area I am spending per gpu each month for power. The only real concern at this point is cutting down on heat going to be fun/interesting cutting about 20-25c from the temps on my gpu.

I use my SLI cards to heat my computer room in the winter and hope it's cheaper than the gas furnace.

it prob is actually gas heaters are expensive to run prob esp now with fuel prices starting to rise lol

donta1979

it prob is actually gas heaters are expensive to run prob esp now with fuel prices starting to rise lol

it prob is actually gas heaters are expensive to run prob esp now with fuel prices starting to rise lol

haha-- I hope so.  I should probably figure out what those rates are. 

I love how an issue with one set of drivers which has been reported as fixed hass sbecome "an Insta Kill" situaation for all Nvidia cards.

I just use a different driver. its ok.

rainfrog

I love how an issue with one set of drivers which has been reported as fixed hass sbecome "an Insta Kill" situaation for all Nvidia cards.

I just use a different driver. its ok.

HUH ?

For once an ATI vs Nvidia post thread that hasn't melted down!  I am pretty happy about that...hopefully a sign of things to come.

I personally am looking at a 5850 or 470gtx depending on the prices when I plan to upgrade (sometime this summer or fall).

Heat is very important to me as it gets pretty toasty where I live during the summer months (90-100's frequently).  My house is old and does not have central heating/air so I have to make do with window units.....trying to leave them off and then run them when I get home is not an option for me.  They could not handle the heat fast enough to cool the house down before late evening.

So I will watch the price wars with interest....see who has the best value.

Wow - someone actually beats the 12 cents/KWH I get through TVA...
 

airddragon

Card      Idle W  Load W  Time Idle  Time Load   W Hours      kWHours     1 Month     1 Year
GTX 295    167     487           4              20            10408          10.41          36.59      445.18
GTX 480    146     450           4              20              9584           9.58           33.69      409.94
ATI 5970   142     444           4              20              9448           9.45           33.22      404.12
GTX 285    140     375           4              20              8060           8.06           28.34      344.75
GTX 470    127     368           4              20              7868           7.87           27.66      336.54
ATI 5870   115     317           4              20              6800           6.80           23.91      290.86
ATI 5850   114     280           4              20              6056           6.06           21.29      259.03

So current cost of owning a 5870 over 1 year is (purchasing an XFX 5870):
$419.99 + $290.86 = $710.85

GTX 480 over 1 year (EVGA GTX 480):
$499.99 + $445.18 = $945.17

That means if you game like a literal maniac, that is 20 hours under load EVERYDAY, you will spend $234.32 more over the year.  That means you are spending $19.52 a month more to use it than a 5870.  This is the most EXTREME example I could come up with outside of a 24/7 Folding machine.

For me it would cost $119.44 a year at $9.95 a month (I don't game as much as I used to and I leave my computer idle while I cook/clean/etc, I turn it off going to work) over owning a single 5870.

Just a facts to chew on for all parties.  I do this kind of thing for anything I'm looking at buying.  Gotta keep those bills reasonable so I can keep using my toys :)  I do not live in an environment that requires significant cooling.  If you live in a place that is REALLY hot, you have my condolences on ANY GPU cooling you have to do.