cryptospartin
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Joined: 12/28/2007
From: Montreal Quebec Canada
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I felt that there should be a post on this for new members, coming to Evga and wanting to learn all about LQ..
I take no credit for this and thanks to XtremeSystem, and realredraider
Choosing The Best Pump for Your WaterCooling System
There are the pumps I reccomend. I am reccomending these pumps off of the calculations that cathar did. I will link you to those right here.
DDC-2/MCP355 DDC-1/MCP350- Any incredibly popular pump all over the world for its small size and excellent performance, the DDC-2 provides performance exceeding the AQX50Z and MCP655, while having a smaller footprint and consuming the same power as the MCP655 (the AQX50Z consumes less than half). Please read more on this pump further down in the guide and in the links provided. (Note: the DDC-2 with and without modified tops is not included in the calculations that Cathar made due to the fact that they were released after the calculations were published, but Alex "Petra" has created detailed PQ curves of the various DDC models which are linked below in the DDC Section)
AQX50Z - My second recomendation is the mcp600 or aqua extreme50z. They are the same pump as I explain further down in my guide. This pump provides the most head pressure between the D4 and itself and will also give you the best temps. Should be noted that the DDC has higher max head but is 3/8 and will provide less flow. Surprisingly enough, when this pump is run at 13.8 volts it will beat pretty much any pump on the market. It is only beaten by running two of them in series. It is quite amazing only drawing 8 watts of power. this really is the ultimate water cooling pump. Low power, high head, and great temps. Its only downside is that it is not as long lasting as some of the others. I have no real data on how long it will run for, but suffice to say that the iwaki will outilve it by a while.
MCP655 - My third recomendation is the D5/MCP655. It is a bit more powerful than the AQX50Z, but dumps appx 2 times the heat into the water. With this in mind, the MCP655 is an excelent choice for those with more powerful radiators. for users with a single 120mm fan radiator the 50Z would be the better option, but larger radiators will be able to handle the heat.
Iwaki MD20RLZ - My fourth reccomendation is the Iwaki MD20RZ. The MD20RLT will also work, providing temps roughly .1 c higher. This pump is incredibly powerful and is a balance between power and heat generation. Please take notice. If you are looking for a quiet/silent pump, the MD20 is NOT what you are looking for, but if you are in the market for an ac pump it is the only way to go.
Triple Radiator Performance Comparison
Swiftech MCR320, ThermoChill PA120.3, XSPC RX360
Intro
With testing a few different triple radiators, I felt it would be best to capture the performance data of them all and compare that data in one spot. Since my test methodology and process allows for the comparison of data between products, I might as well bring all of that information into one easy to view page. Even though this page might be all you feel needs to be shown for a comparison, the individual pages go into much greater detail about the individual products themselves and the experience I had with the product through testing. I have linked all of the individual reviews for you on this page as well as the navigation pane to the left. Be sure to scroll all the way to the end of the page for a my conclusion on all of the radiators as well as a spreadsheet tool that calculates the Water Out temperature for you. Enjoy!
The Round-UpIncluded in this round-up are the three triple radiators I have tested thus far, I am sure there will be more triples added to the charts as time goes on. For now, we have the Swiftech MCR320-QP, ThermoChill PA120.3 and XSPC RX360. Here are links to the individual reviews and test reports, also available via the menu on the left side of the page.
Swiftech MCR320 ThermoChill PA120.3 XSPC RX360
Swiftech MCR320
ThermoChill PA120.3
XSPC RX360
Pressure and Flow Results
When building your loop there should be a list of things that come to mind, flow and pressure should be near the top of that list. Pressure drop is the measurement of inlet pressure minus outlet pressure, or the pressure lost of flow through the radiator. Pressure: Dwyer Series 490-3 Digital Hydronic Manometer - Accuracy 0.5% of Scale, Range 0-50.00 PSI, Resolution 0.01 PSI Flow Rate: King Instruments 7520 0-5GPM, 10" Scale - Accuracy 2% of scale. Flow Rate controlled by a brass gate valve with 1/2" NPT 5/8" Barbs Water: Outlet from the wash basin tap in my mud room Here are the combined pressure drop numbers for our round-up. I have included kPa and mH2O using Liters per Hour for our European metric system friends. After all there is such a large number of readers who use metric over imperial units, they should have data in their common format too.Pressure Drop Data Tables
  
PSI Drop per GPM of flow
kPa drop per LPH of flow
mH2O Drop per LPH of flow
From the charts, you can see the PA120.3 series is still the lowest pressure drop radiator available, with the RX360 coming in extremely close.
The MCR320 although having higher pressure drop than the PA120.3 and RX360 is still low compared to cpu or other blocks. Don't let the curve fool you into reading it wrong, pressure drop on radiators is lower than any other device in your loop.Thermal Testing Methodology/Specification
For explanation of my Thermal Testing methods, equipment specifications and other factors involved in radiator thermal testing please see the "Thermal Testing Methodology / Specification" in any one of the triple radiator reviews linked at the top of this page.One section I do want to reiterate here is calculating heat load for your loop and the tools I use when estimating the heat capacity of a proposed loop.For information on calculating heat load for your loop here are two resources I have used in the past. Another method I have used in the past is to Google search TDP for a specific component, that should also help in estimating the heat load that will be in the loop for a specific component. The primary one for me is linked below, they take a lot of the google searching out of the equation and break everything down to just the numbers you need.
Extreme OuterVision PSU Calculator: Note the calculation starts with 38w, remember to remove that in your estimate
Please remember, calculating the power consumption and using that as heat load is not exact and is only an estimate. This estimate will be higher than actual heat load applied as you do transfer some heat to the air circulating in your case around the components. How much difference I cannot begin to speculate, but I just want to state that it is only an estimate and not an exact specification.
Thermal Performance Test ResultsBefore moving into the eye-candy charts, I want to show all of the finalized thermal test data that will be used for our Applied C/W tables and charts. I feel that as a tester it is crucial that I maintain an open book for test methods, data and results. One thing I truly enjoy with the Liquid Cooling community is the sheer number of you out there who double check my calculations, you guys always keep me on my toes and help me with presenting the information as well as implement additional tests for data you are interested in. On to the data tables shall we...
Swiftech MCR320
ThermoChill PA120.3
XSPC RX360
After that, many of you have glossed over eyes. However, there are those out there who want to see the numbers and verify the calculations and data. It is the numbers in those charts that derive all of the information for the remainder of the comparison. Without going through all of the trouble to populate that chart with data and calculations we would not have the fancy charts later in this comparison. I have a feeling that I have now reached the agitation point of most readers, and they've already scrolled down to the heat dissipation charts anyhow. Moving on.
Applied C/W DataFrom all of the individual tests performed on the MCR320, PA120.3 and RX360 we have a data set that we can use as a comparison, this is C/W. From the small probably glanced over data table from the full reviews, here are the contenders C/W Calculated data tables that will be used for the charts/graphs that compare all of the radiators together. As a reminder, the results you see in the data tables are the applied C/W results with a given Delta (Water Out-Air In) to find how much wattage each the radiator dissipate. For each data table the calculations include Deltas of 15º, 10º, 5º and 2º. Once again, here is my classifications for those deltas. 15º Delta: Low Performance, an overloaded but capable loop. 10º Delta: Average Performance, very capable of good temps and representative of an average system. 5º Delta: High Performance, for those of you looking to achieve the best possible temps. 2º Delta: Ultra Performance. extreme setups only, this would be an ultimate setup where you limit to dedicated block loops. Swiftech MCR320
ThermoChill PA120.3
XSPC RX360
Applied C/W to Watts Dissipated
The section you've all been looking for, which radiator can dissipate the most watts at a give fan speed. I added a trendline for those of you who prefer and fan speed different than one of the six speeds I tested at. But please remember, the trendline is a estimated prediction and not true representation. Just look at the discrepancy among the plotted data points and how the trendlines are close, but not through some of the plotted points.Looking at the Average Performance 10C Delta chart, all three radiators are within 18 watts of each other until 1800RPM with the D12SH12's. While many are looking at which is king at each fan speed, keep in mind that 18 watts is the heat dump of a D5 with EK top at 1.5GPM. 18 watts was the average wattage measured during the testing of each radiator. Not to take away from the leader at those fan speeds, but I just want to add some perspective for you.
Here are the plotted results for a 5º Delta or High Performance. You can see the heat (watts) dissipation gets smaller, we are cutting the Water Out-Air In delta in half, but the XSPC still leads in low speed fans and the ThermoChill starts to outpace the XSPC and MCR by greater margins above 1800RPM. To put these numbers into perspective, any of the three radiators tested would perform at a "High" Delta rating on a CPU only loop between 1000RPM and 1400RPM.
Finally, the plotted results for a 2º Delta or Ultra Performance. This chart is purely to show what wattages and fan speeds you need to get really close to ambient water temps.
Probably not going to happen for 95% of the Liquid Cooling users out there, regardless of the radiator used. Unless you're running very high speed fans, the watts dissipated just doesn't equate to a CPU loop or GPU loop. With that said, a any one of these triples with low rpm fans would make a great chipset loop radiator. Yes, I am one of those crazies who runs a dedicated chipset and mosfet loop off a triple radiator.
Price ConsiderationsWith all of the performance numbers for heat dissipation and pressure drop being bounced around here, what about the performance we can all relate to quickly and easily...our bank accounts. The MCR320 remains the biggest bang for the buck, while the ThermoChill is still the highest priced (except for in the UK), with the RX360 in between. Keep in mind the RX360 price is the Market Price and may not be the actual price at Jab-Tech once the next shipment comes in, I would speculate that the price will be less. (Prices taken on 03/04/09)
Swiftech MCR320 Jab-Tech - $51.95 Petra's - $53.99 AquaTuning.de - 56.99€
ThermoChill PA120.3 Jab-Tech - $119.95 Watercooling.co.uk - £55.99 (incl. VAT) AquaTuning.de - 89.99€
XSPC RX360 Jab-Tech - $99.95 Petra's - $94.95 Watercooling.co.uk - £71.99 (incl. VAT) AquaTuning.de - 79.99€
Tools and Utilities
While I was slaving away in Excel I decided to make a Water Temperature Estimator with data from the radiators here in the comparison. Martin had the idea originally and started it back on his site for each radiator he tested. I just decided to follow the lead, but combine all of the fan speed C/W's into one workbook. When playing around with the Estimator, be sure to notice the difference in Water temps as you change from one radiator to another. You'll be surprised at how small the difference really is.
 skinnee labs Water Temp Estimator v1
Conclusion
Overall, all three radiators do their job and do it extremely well. The ThermoChill while losing its crown at low speed fans still provides a tremendous amount of cooling across all fan speeds, but has some issues with radiator flux and requires a lot of prep before being put in the loop and that neoprene gasket makes me want to break things.
The Swiftech MCR320 brings a very low price and a whole lot of cooling performance, that combination is tough to beat. If you find yourself overspending on other portions of your build, rest assured the MCR320 is money well spent. To me, the XSPC RX360 seems to bring the right combination of performance, low speed fan optimization and price into a great package.To put it another way, you'll be happy with any one of the three and don't let anyone tell you otherwise or talk you out of buying the one you have a preference for. Purchase the radiator that suits your needs for your build, whether it is fan spacing, thickness or looks. All three get my recommendation!Thanks for reading, hope you enjoyed the show! 
Attached is the First version of the XtremeSystems Compression fittings Chart!
Water blocks threading and fittings
ok trying to make a list of waterblocks and what threading they use and fittings that fitts. maybe adding some more general info(very short) about the blocks later:Water blocks:
Swiftech Storm - 1\4 NPSM
Swiftech Apogee - 1\4 NPSM
Swiftech Apogee GTX - G1\4
Swiftech mcw6000 series - Integrated
Swiftech mcw60 - 1\4 NPSM
Swiftech mcw30 - 1\4NPSM
AquaXtreme MP-05 - 9\16 UNF
AquaXtreme MP-01 - 9\16 UNF
DD Tdx - 9\16 UNF
DD Rbx - 9\16 UNF
DD Maze 4 gpu - G1\4
DD maze 4 gpu lp - 9\16 UNF
DD Tyee - G1\4
DD maze 4 nb
DD Hdd cooler - G1\4
D-Tek Fuzion - G1\4
Alphacool Nexxxos xp - G1\4
Alphacool nexxxos hp - G1\8
Alphacool nexxxos nvxp-3 - G1\4
Alphacool nexxxos gp3x - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller cpu - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller gpu - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller gpu-x - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller nb - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller nb micro - M5
Watercool Silentstar hd - G1\4
Watercool Heatkiller ram micro - M5
EK Supreme - G1\4
EK wave cpu - G1\4
EK vga - G1\4
EK nb - G1\4
White water le
Polarflo blocks - 9\16 NPT(?)
The swiftech(beeing delrin) 1\4 NPSM is compitable with G1\4(BSPP).
Difference is that its 18 threads per inch at NPSM but 19 threads per inch at G1\4(BSPP)
Since most male end G ¼ fittings have a short thread length they can generally be engaged in the NPSM threads without difficulty.
Radiators:
Thermochill PA120.X series - G3\8
Thermochill PA160 - G3\8
Thermochill HE120.X series - G3\8
Hwlabs micro - G1\4
Hwlabs BIP(x-flow) - G1\4
Hwlabs BIX(x-flow) - G1\4
Hwlabs GTS - G1\4
Hwlabs GTX - G1\4
Alphacool Nexxxos Pro - G1\4
Alphacool Nexxxos Xtreme - G1\4
Swiftech MCR X20 - 3\8NPT
Cooltek Extream - G1\4
Pumps:
Laing DDC\Swiftech mcp350 - Integrated 3\8OD, But normally not used, replaced with another top like:
- Petra`s top - G1\4
- XSPC top - G1\4
- Alphacool top - G1\4
- Kp-xpsmod top - ???
- Radiical top - G1\4???
- Laing D5\Swiftech MCP655 - Integrated 1\2OD
- Hydor seltz L series - G1\2
Resvoir:
Thermochill Thermotube - G3\8
Swiftech MicroRes - 1\4 NPSM
EK Ress - G1\4
Psu:
Waterkiller psu wc cooled - G1\4
CPU Line Up
Hope you all enjoyed!
26 120mm Fans Tested and Compared Thanks to Vapor
Doing things a little differently for my third fan mega-round-up. Will be doing mini installments of some 'key' matchups as I build up all the data to the full-size review. The full review will be more than just an amalgamation of results--it will have its own new results of fans I've left out in the process (because they didn't quite fit into any of the mini round ups).I haven't done this previously for a variety of reasons:1) I really didn't know what the 'key' matchups were until AFTER the tests were completed. 1a) The key matchups for this review were pretty clear. Today you will see the first one.2) With my old test setups, I was wary that I'd get done with some data, publish it, and then find a flaw in it via later testing. By withholding the data until it was all screened as a whole and randomly double checked (well, I checked the San Ace H1011 data at least 5 times), I felt more confident in the consistency and validity. 2a) With my new test setup and the experience of testing over 90 fans prior to this round up, I feel I can screen, double check, and publish as I go.3) It's a lot of work to do this. By releasing the data all at the end, I can take breaks as I please. Real life can get in the way without any sort of concern over a deadline, and I can prepare certain people of certain results (for instance...I contacted Petra suggesting he order more Yate Loons before I published my review showing his were different and superior to the rest).3a) I plan to do all the above still. Sorry, but if I need a break from testing, I'm taking it. Each fan takes about two hours to get basic data from, plus I also warm the fans up and also do an extended burn-in to achieve data that's representative of long-term use, rather than out-of-the-box use (I mean, really...who cares how a fan performs for the first 5 minutes you have it?...the other 525,595 minutes in a year are more important).Testing has changed....againOkay, yeah...each full-size round up has its own testing procedure and testbed. I make improvements each time for a variety of reasons:1) attempt to speed up the procedure for my sanity.2) attempt to improve repeatability of...everything.3) attempt to have more significant data each successive test.4) I actually don't want results from one test compared to another.What does that mean?Well, from going from Roundup 1 to Roundup 2, I ditched the CPU temp tests. They were a massive PITA. And they didn't *say* much, IMO. I also tried to get more prevalent fans for Roundup 2, as I felt the fans in Roundup 1 were almost a hodge-podge collection that were not terribly representative of what overclockers will be using in their daily systems (or what was available for sale).For Roundup 3, I have the biggest change yet (IMO). I've done separate testing for Open Air Noise and Radiator Noise. No longer am I correlating Radiator Airflow with Open Air Noise. It wasn't totally useless as it was--the airflow numbers were always pertinent, and to be frank, the Open Air Noise numbers aren't typically that different from Radiator Noise numbers. But thanks to one particular fan in Roundup 3, my hand was pushed and I HAD to do the testing. More on this later.As for point #4, that may seem weird to dataologists (yes, I made that up, but you probably know what it means--there are many of you here at XS). But simply...the test environments were very different and frankly, the fans themselves weren't even the same. I just didn't want people thinking that one result from one test could be just dropped into the result bank of another test...so I went out of my way to make the data incongruous. The easiest way? Change the way I used to convert my recorded noise measurements to published noise data. The data didn't actually change, just the number associated with it--and I'd do it differently each time. Roundup 3 is no exception. Don't try to compare data from this roundup to previous roundups, please.Okay, enough bloviatingLet's talk about fans.In this roundup I've tested between 4 and 6 fans, depending on how you count  Fan 1) Scythe S-Flex E (1200RPM)Fan 2) Scythe Slip Stream M (1200RPM)Fan 3) Yate Loon D12SL-12 (1350RPM)Fan 4) Noctua P12 (retail sample, 1300RPM)Fan 5) Noctua P12 (review sample, 1300RPM)Fan 6) San Ace 109R1212H1011 @ 5V (yes, only 5V results in this test--no clue what RPM it's at )Why these fans?All are either tested, rated, or presumed to move approximately 50CFM. They're also the most prevalent everywhere you go on the internet.Two are solid performers from Roundup 2: the Yate Loon D12SL-12 (well, I actually didn't test the SL, but the SM is extremely similar as I found out in my own testing later) and the S-Flex E.There's the king of Roundup 2: the San Ace 109R1212H1011...but only at 5V, since that's really all that's pertinent.  There's two new gunners: the Slip Stream M may be rated for 68.54CFM, but it's a 1200RPM fan and if I've learned anything, it's two things ( ); 1) manufacturer ratings can be fully ignored for both CFM and dBA and 2) RPM rating tells you a lot about what a fan can or can't do. As it turns out, the fan doesn't move 68+CFM, go figure.  The other newcomer is the Noctua P12--and in addition to having my usual retail sample (I buy ALL of my fans...more on this later), I also have a review sample from Noctua (I don't know if they know I have it though?--it wasn't sent directly to me [or with the intent of ending up in my hands] is the short version). The review sample was made in late October of `07 and the retail sample was made in mid April of `08. Both are otherwise "new" though...they were NIB when they reached my hands. This fan promises to be a significant improvement over the previous S12 via significantly revamped design to rectify radiator performance (the S12 was a very good fan that was basically incompatible with radiators and fan filters due to its fan blade design).
Anyway, the reason I don't test review samples is simple (especially if you've taken an Intro to Philosophy course)....while I can trust some companies to send me run-of-the-mill fans that I'd expect to perform identically to a retail sample (Panaflo, Sanyo Denki, NMB-MAT, Delta, etc.), other companies I absolutely cannot trust (SilenX, Silverstone, etc.)...and then there are the companies in the middle (Zalman, Noctua, Scythe) that I'm (rightfully) unsure of. The philosophical problem is: where do I draw a line? Any line is arbitrary so therefore I can't draw any line. This means either ALL review samples, which is already proven as a bad option....or ALL retail samples, which I do. Besides, a retail sample is very likely to be more universally indicative of retail performance.
So why am I testing a review sample of the Noctua P12? Curiosity mostly. I have it, so I figure I might as well compare it to the one I've purchased.
Anybody want results? Did anybody actual read all of that? God I hope so...little irks me more than having someone ask a question that's answered in the first post. It may be a lot of words, but it's important, pertinent, and it'll be the last time I say most of it as further Mini-Reviews will be mostly data/interpretation-only.
All fansAll fans are good here, really....there's no winners or losers. There are some important things to note, however.1) the review sample generally outperforms the retail sample except at 8V and 9V where the review sample acoustically goes flat. It doesn't change at all--the pitch, the loudness, nothing. I had to double check the multimeter. That said, when put on the airflow testbed, the same noise characteristics were noted, but the airflow scaling was as-expected. Hence the 'dip'2) the S-Flex E is the best sounding of the group. No doubt about it. YL D12SL-12 is a close 2nd. The S-Flex E also gets quiet in a hurry...at 7V it's making about the same amount of noise as the other fans do at 5V.3) the Slip Stream struts its stuff. Disappointingly, it never gets silent, even at 5V, but it performs well in open air and has a decent noise profile.4) the Noctuas sound pretty good. They're not as good as the S12s I tested, subjectively, but they're good. I'd put them in my case  5) San Ace H1011 isn't going to be dethroned easily. Oddly, it was also the 'chattiest.' Nothing you'd notice in a case, but sitting out in an open room and compared to some great fans, you notice the slightest different and it was making a bit extra noise than I would have expected...still a wonderful showing though.
 1) Okay, who didn't see the Slip Steam's demise coming? I know I've been harping on it for the longest time...but even this surprised me.1a) When first testing this fan for the Fan Filter Comparison I did, I noticed it was actually performing okay on the radiator. Airflow numbers weren't horrendous like I anticipated. The 1900RPM "SH" actually had similar airflow loss to the 1900RPM S-Flex G. I was kinda flabbergasted. Then I turned off the music, turned off the A/C, turned off the TV, turned off the loud-as-sin Xbox 360, turned off the dogs and turned off the gf and I noticed something--the Slip Streams were getting significantly louder on a radiator. Well beyond the point of turbulence noise...it was like the fan was increasing its RPM...significantly. Now I haven't tested THAT (RPM sensors I've learned to not trust, thanks ASUS, Intel, Abit, and DFI), but I figured I might as well test the noise it makes on a radiator...then I realized if I was going to be testing the noise it made on a radiator, I'd have to test all fans on a radiator for noise. No longer could I assume the difference would be negligible....thanks Scythe. 1b) So I began testing noise on a radiator set up and....wow...my ears were right, the thing makes a ton of new and extra noise on a radiator. Whereas the Yate Loon and S-Flex basically were unchanged on the radiator, the Slip Stream acted like a completely different fan--a fan out of the 1200RPM class. 2) In other news, the San Ace H1011 actually got quieter on a radiator  It also has fairly high CFM loss all things considered...but that's nothing new, it did in Roundup 2 as well. I have a feeling its RPM is decreasing. Still at the top of the heap though 3) Yate Loon D12SL-12 and S-Flex E are solid performers--still. 4) The Noctua P12 didn't quite live up to the hype. It's a pretty good performer, no doubt (its superiors are outstanding fans frankly), but it's not a killer like it looks and is hyped. It may be an overaggressive blade structure causing turbulence noise that brings it down. I'll have to examine more.5) The review sample still has the dip, but the added noise of being on the radiator (and the increase in airflow) shallows the dip slightly.The endThat's basically all I have for now. Not sure what fans will come next or when to expect the results, but I have oodles of free time this week (I think), so who knows what will actually happen.
< Message edited by cryptospartin -- 4/22/2009 9:40:09 PM >
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