Gun guys, explain please.

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mistermister

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Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:04 PM (permalink)
So my friend recently moved here from out of state. He brought with him his new side arm, a 4th generation Glock 23 (.40). He had no issues with the airlines, TSA, port authority, etc. when bringing it over. He checked it in properly and everything... however when he tried to register it, it was told that his handgun was illegal in our state (CA). 
 
Now here is where the confusion comes in. My friend (this is sort of playing the telephone game here) was trying to explain to me that the 4th generation Glocks use some sort of "double spring" in the slide which classifies his handgun as an "assault weapon"? This does not make sense to me at all, then again I know next to nothing about firearms.
 
Can someone here please elaborate and.or possibly provide a legal solution to this? Otherwise he is going to have to sell it. Quite lame since he has only owned it for a few months.
<message edited by mistermister on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:06 PM>
 
 
#1
    Arctucas

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    Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:20 PM (permalink)
    I do not know the California statue, but the reason, to quote Thomas Jefferson;
    "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

     
    #2
      mistermister

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      Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:24 PM (permalink)
      Okay, yes.. I get it, however I don't really want this thread to get closed so I am trying to avoid any left/right debate on gun laws. I will just say that I live in CA, I voted for Obama, I have never owned a firearm, however I feel this law is... well... retarded, for lack of a better term. Unless of course someone can explain to me how a different slide spring = "assault weapon". Its still semi-auto and it does not have an extended clip. Perhaps it makes it easier to modify into full auto?   
      <message edited by mistermister on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:26 PM>
       
       
      #3
        houkom

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        Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:30 PM (permalink)
        Im not really a gun guy, but ive been looking around online and have found "Mechanically, fourth generation Glock pistols are fitted with a dual recoil spring assembly to help reduce perceived recoil and increase service life expectancy". Maybe this is bad because the gun lasts longer (can be used by gangs longer, idk?), or makes them easier to convert into a fully automatic weapon?
         
        If anyone knows the actual answer please fire away, im just speculating/trying to help.

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        #4
          mistermister

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          Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:32 PM (permalink)
          Feh, gang members probably wouldnt be using such a nice firearm.
           
           
          #5
            KMoore4318

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            Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 4:57 PM (permalink)
             
            I have an opinion, but am afraid to express it, TOS and all, But ; I suspect you will have this issue, until the next big Earthquake.  You might be able to find a solution after the first Tuesday after Nov. 1st. Or if the California Governor, can find a way to Tax it. Even if you could get enough people to change the law, some judge there would just change it back. It's sad that a law abiding citizen is restricted on what he can protect himself or his family with, but the criminal that is breaking in, has no such restriction, because; he doesn't follow the laws anyway. Can you imagine a person, thinking about breaking into a home, saying Darn, lets call it off, The gun I brought tonight isn't legal ?
            houkom


            If anyone knows the actual answer please fire away, ...


            ^ can we revise this; not sure I like the way it's worded don't want someone geting the wrong idea.
            <message edited by KMoore4318 on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:02 PM>
              
                 
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            #6
              mistermister

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              Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:16 PM (permalink)
              ROFL, I didnt catch that punage.
               
              Edit: Also I found that this weapon (actually all 4th gen glock pistols with this "dual spring" mechanism) is illegal not only in CA, but also HI, NY, CT and one other state, I forget which. Dont know if this helps. I am also assuming this may have something to do with the Brady bill?
              <message edited by mistermister on Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:17 PM>
               
               
              #7
                RainStryke

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                Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:27 PM (permalink)
                When purchasing my firearm I noticed CA has a ton of restrictions on what you can buy, some area's don't even allow you to ship a firearm to them. Night sites are illegal in CA as well. I'm curious to see the reasoning behind these laws and know if they actually did anything for the citizens or if it made things worse like KMoore mentioned.
                 
                 
                 
                #8
                  jmcdermott81

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                  Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 5:59 PM (permalink)
                  CA DOJ banned them in the last Senate seating...  Only specified reason was similarity to LE, and the fact that some are not microstamped per CA specs....  pretty stupid if you ask me
                   
                  #9
                    ggaudi

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                    Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:02 PM (permalink)
                    To save your friend the headache, I hate to say it, but he should sell the gun.
                    Tell him Welcome to California!
                     
                     
                    #10
                      ZachA

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                      Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:31 PM (permalink)
                      [REMOVED]
                       
                      your friend is screwed, anything that holds more then 10rds and is semi-auto is classified as an assult rifle there(Thus illegal), I work at a Gun shop part time and we refuse to do any transaction what so ever through, New York, Illinois, and CALIFORNA.
                       
                      EDIT by Jedi:  removed off-topic portions of post.
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                      #11
                        Bkatt

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                        Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 6:43 PM (permalink)
                        Glad i live in AZ. we have the most relax gun laws. I would say your friend needs to sell the the gun and get one that he can own in Cali. Like a BB he MIGHT be able to get away with as long as its not over 50 PSI.

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                        #12
                          Flint 1760

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                          Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 7:20 PM (permalink)
                          California has restrictions on various aspects of all firearms because of magazine capacity, features, etc.  The best your friend can do is to sell the 23 and purchase a California compliant handgun.  This may help to ensure they are purchasing one that is acceptable http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
                           

                           
                          #13
                            mistermister

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                            Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:01 PM (permalink)
                            Yea, it looks like he is going to go with a Sig or something similar. In any case, is it legal for him to sell it in this state to someone from out of state? 
                             
                             
                            #14
                              NordicJedi

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                              Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:58 PM (permalink)
                              This thread is close to getting locked thanks to the repeated assertions of political comments by members other than the OP.  Stay on topic regarding the OP's questions, which I should point out never requested a member's opinion on gun laws or the gun laws of certain states.  
                               
                              Again, I apparently must remind members that stating "I don't want to get get political, but...." does not excuse you from the TOS.  Next post like that in this thread will get a warning.  This is not the place for those discussions, most of you have been around long enough or earned warnings for doing this in the past, and it should not be necessary for a reminder.
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                              #15
                                Requital

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                                Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:24 PM (permalink)
                                my understanding is that California is getting more difficult to purchase and own certain semi autos in. The reason for this is because of the way the laws restricting the sale and ownerships of the firearms are laid out. The terms are often broad, so guns that are not necessarily automatic will often be restricted.
                                 
                                Political issues aside, the point is the law is the law. Even if this gun is misclassified due to this spring issue, unless he has the time and money to take it to court and fight about it, he doesn't have much choice but sell the gun.
                                 
                                It could be because of the double spring mechanism it falls into the same restriction area as a fully automatic weapon, even though all the spring does is act as a dampener, but I doubt it.
                                 
                                To my knowledge, the reason it isn't allowed in CA is because I heard the 4th gens do not have a loaded chamber indicator and a magazine disconnect. I can not verify this because I have yet to handle a 4th gen.
                                 
                                #16
                                  Demonik5150

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                                  Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:49 PM (permalink)
                                  mistermister


                                  Feh, gang members probably wouldnt be using such a nice firearm.

                                  HA you'd be surprised  
                                   
                                   
                                  #17
                                    Requital

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                                    Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 9:59 PM (permalink)
                                    Demonik5150


                                    mistermister


                                    Feh, gang members probably wouldnt be using such a nice firearm.

                                    HA you'd be surprised  

                                     
                                    The truth is, that is part of the reason the laws are so strict. The problem is many of the guns kids are packing aren't purchased through legal means or are brought from other states and never registered. Regardless of the politics or reasons why the state has its laws, the point is, the law is there, and the law IS the LAW. If the law is flawed, then more people need to focus on lobbying to change the law, until that day, the point remains:
                                     
                                    A 4th generation Glock 23 does not have magazine disconnect, which means it is not legal in the state of California, and you would be fighting more than state legislature and anti-gun people to get that law removed, keep in mind most law enforcement officers frown on handguns that do not have magazine disconnects.
                                     
                                    The best thing is to buy a gun that is currently state legal, and register it before any laws change.
                                     
                                    #18
                                      bucyrus5000

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                                      Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:08 PM (permalink)
                                      Can your friend inquire if a modification to the gun can be made to make it legal? If no, then trade it for a legal gun with someone from another state.

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                                      #19
                                        mistermister

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                                        Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:11 PM (permalink)
                                        Heh, can I put that in the FS forum? LOL what? 1001 posts? Crazy. 
                                         
                                         
                                        #20
                                          Requital

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                                          Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:19 PM (permalink)
                                          bucyrus5000


                                          Can your friend inquire if a modification to the gun can be made to make it legal? If no, then trade it for a legal gun with someone from another state.

                                           
                                          I don't think there are any kits out there to do that with, and even if there were I am not sure they would allow it to be registered, it isn't like buying a smaller capacity magazine. He can call and check, but keep in mind, Glocks are designed to be service weapons for military and law enforcement agencies. Because of that, they will usually be designed with the carriers safety in mind, rather than the safety of others around the carrier. This means they aren't producing a magazine disconnect safety on their new firearms, in turn making them illegal in the state of California.
                                           
                                          Your friend can try to talk to someone to see if he can find out if there are any modifications he can make to allow the firearm to be registered, but to my understanding, he is SOL. Time to sell it and buy something different
                                           
                                          #21
                                            Demonik5150

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                                            Re:Gun guys, explain please. Wednesday, April 20, 2011 10:22 PM (permalink)
                                            Requital


                                            bucyrus5000


                                            Can your friend inquire if a modification to the gun can be made to make it legal? If no, then trade it for a legal gun with someone from another state.


                                            I don't think there are any kits out there to do that with, and even if there were I am not sure they would allow it to be registered, it isn't like buying a smaller capacity magazine. He can call and check, but keep in mind, Glocks are designed to be service weapons for military and law enforcement agencies. Because of that, they will usually be designed with the carriers safety in mind, rather than the safety of others around the carrier. This means they aren't producing a magazine disconnect safety on their new firearms, in turn making them illegal in the state of California.

                                            Your friend can try to talk to someone to see if he can find out if there are any modifications he can make to allow the firearm to be registered, but to my understanding, he is SOL. Time to sell it and buy something different


                                             
                                             
                                            #22
                                              ZachA

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                                              Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:31 AM (permalink)
                                              mistermister


                                              Heh, can I put that in the FS forum? LOL what? 1001 posts? Crazy. 


                                              No all firearm transaction are REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to be transfered from one FFL dealer to the next when crossing state lines, like what your friend wanted to do originally to legal own it, pretty much you need to go through here: http://www.gunbroker.com/ you can auction it off and legally set up a transfer to another state, Gen IV Glocks are in high demand right now as we(the store I work at) can not keep them in stock.

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                                              #23
                                                jacobt29

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                                                Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 5:57 AM (permalink)
                                                http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/m/glock/p/glock-23-40s-w-4th-gen-black-pistol,-new-/manufacturers_id/29/products_id/5665?SID
                                                 
                                                ATTENTION: The following locations have magazine restrictions; please check for your local law and regulations before placing an order.
                                                California- No mags over 10rds without a high-cap mag permit.
                                                Hawaii- No handgun mags over 10rds.
                                                Massachusetts- No mags over 10rds.
                                                Maryland- No mags over 20rds.
                                                New Jersey- No mags over 15rds.
                                                New York- No mags over 10rds made after 1994 (i.e. none marked Law Enforcement only).
                                                Chicago-No mags over 10rds.
                                                Washington DC- No mags over 10rds.
                                                 
                                                 
                                                http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
                                                12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.(B) A thumbhole stock.(C) A folding or telescoping stock.(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.(E) A flash suppressor.(F) A forward pistol grip.(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.(B) A second handgrip.(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:(A) A folding or telescoping stock.(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting purposes at the time the act adding this subdivision is enacted, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (c).(c) "Assault weapon" does not include either of the following:(1) Any antique firearm.(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (b):
                                                MANUFACTURER MODEL CALIBER BENELLI MP90 .22LR BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG BENELLI MP95 .22LR BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG HAMMERLI 280 .22LR HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG PARDINI SP .22LR PARDINI SPE .22LR WALTHER GSP .22LR WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT (3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section from being classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that the department deems relevant.(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section:(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.(e) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.


                                                The reason why the gun is illegal in some states is because of the magazine capacity size not because of the double spring feature.

                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  DeepPurple23

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                                                  Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 6:10 AM (permalink)
                                                  Not an expert here by any means, IL has some pretty strange rules as well.  However, if I remember one of the debates on the issue, it's not really because of the guns current state of build, it is because the gun's firing pin can be filed down and the weapon is no longer "semi-automatic" rather "automatic" making it an "assault weapon" with one sole purpose, to kill people.  Of course, that being said in most states you can buy a pistol grip shotgun, they're great for "hunting" ducks.   Government logic is rarely logical. 

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                                                  #25
                                                    mistermister

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                                                    Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:10 AM (permalink)
                                                    Awesome replies guys. Looks like he will be putting the weapon up for sale.
                                                     
                                                    A few more follow up questions though...
                                                     
                                                    1. What can he sell this for? It's barely had 2 dozen rounds fired through it.
                                                     
                                                    2. What would be a good (on par performance and cost wise) LEGAL replacement?
                                                     
                                                    3. WTH is a "magazine disconnect"?
                                                     
                                                    edit:
                                                     
                                                    4. Is he technically breaking the law right now, even though he brought it into the state legally? Is there some sort of grace period where he can legally have this in order to sell/transfer it out of state?
                                                    <message edited by mistermister on Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:11 AM>
                                                     
                                                     
                                                    #26
                                                      TitCobra

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                                                      Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:11 AM (permalink)
                                                      jacobt29


                                                      http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/m/glock/p/glock-23-40s-w-4th-gen-black-pistol,-new-/manufacturers_id/29/products_id/5665?SID

                                                      ATTENTION: The following locations have magazine restrictions; please check for your local law and regulations before placing an order.
                                                      California- No mags over 10rds without a high-cap mag permit.
                                                      Hawaii- No handgun mags over 10rds.
                                                      Massachusetts- No mags over 10rds.
                                                      Maryland- No mags over 20rds.
                                                      New Jersey- No mags over 15rds.
                                                      New York- No mags over 10rds made after 1994 (i.e. none marked Law Enforcement only).
                                                      Chicago-No mags over 10rds.
                                                      Washington DC- No mags over 10rds.


                                                      http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php
                                                      12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.(B) A thumbhole stock.(C) A folding or telescoping stock.(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.(E) A flash suppressor.(F) A forward pistol grip.(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.(B) A second handgrip.(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:(A) A folding or telescoping stock.(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting purposes at the time the act adding this subdivision is enacted, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (c).(c) "Assault weapon" does not include either of the following:(1) Any antique firearm.(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (b):
                                                      MANUFACTURER MODEL CALIBER BENELLI MP90 .22LR BENELLI MP90 .32 S&W LONG BENELLI MP95 .22LR BENELLI MP95 .32 S&W LONG HAMMERLI 280 .22LR HAMMERLI 280 .32 S&W LONG HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S&W LONG PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT PARDINI HP .32 S&W LONG PARDINI MP .32 S&W LONG PARDINI SP .22LR PARDINI SPE .22LR WALTHER GSP .22LR WALTHER GSP .32 S&W LONG WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT (3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section from being classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that the department deems relevant.(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section:(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.(e) This section shall become operative January 1, 2000.


                                                      The reason why the gun is illegal in some states is because of the magazine capacity size not because of the double spring feature.

                                                      Thanks for properly answering the OP's question! BR?  I even learned something from this post. I was going to put a foregrip on my noveske n6 but it looks like now I am not! Oh California, how I love and hate you.
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        mistermister

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                                                        Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:13 AM (permalink)
                                                        TitCobra

                                                        Thanks for properly answering the OP's question! BR?  I even learned something from this post. I was going to put a foregrip on my noveske n6 but it looks like now I am not! Oh California, how I love and hate you.

                                                         
                                                        Yes, I too have a love/hate relationship in regards to the laws in this state. I guess its a give and take with what is "legal" and what isnt, eh?
                                                         
                                                        edit: and yes, a BR for the helpful homeboy there.
                                                        <message edited by mistermister on Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:16 AM>
                                                         
                                                         
                                                        #28
                                                          wrinvert

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                                                          Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:34 AM (permalink)
                                                          as a gun owner i often roll my eyes at some of these laws and many other laws to boot.
                                                           
                                                          to answer your questions to the best i know, the spring can be replaced witha gen 3 setup and get around that issue(as told by my local glock dealer since the double spring has a jamming issue sometimes many people are doing this anyways). however this wont fix you next issue which is also your next question, the magazine disconnect, wikipedia is your friend. there is no way to modifie this on a glock.
                                                           
                                                          as for sale price, check gunbroker.com it will give you a good idea or check with your local gun shop as you will need to ship it out from one anyways. this one always be a good time to check with them about a new legal purchase.
                                                           
                                                          "grace period" no such thing, dont get caught "the man" has no sense of humor about gun law/regs. i've seen to many people see jail time for oops moments and general lack of knowledge about the local, state-state and federal gun laws.
                                                          <message edited by wrinvert on Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:36 AM>
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            mistermister

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                                                            Re:Gun guys, explain please. Thursday, April 21, 2011 9:45 AM (permalink)
                                                            Heh, I am wondering how word got out about this post. It seems we had a few new members join up just to reply!
                                                             
                                                             
                                                            #30
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