Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!!

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DNOTTIS

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Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:20 PM (permalink)
Well after a few days of silence, I got a reply tonight...
 
 
 
Good news....or bad depending on the point of view

I finally got a repro so I am going to pass it on to our dev to look at it. I'll keep you updated on the status. It doesn't look like I will need to borrow your graphics card after all.

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#1
    GenTarkin

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    Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:24 PM (permalink)
    Well, he should tell us what it is !?!?!?!?! that bastard LOL... JK, Im just so excited...come on!!!! YOU CAN DO IT NV! .... cough cough bastards....
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    #2
      DNOTTIS

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      Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:30 PM (permalink)
      Dont worry I'll keep you guys in the loop.  I'll pass it along as soon as I get more information.
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      #3
        argiveajax

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        Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 4:48 PM (permalink)
        DNOTTIS


        Dont worry I'll keep you guys in the loop.  I'll pass it along as soon as I get more information.





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        #4
          Robs03gts

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          Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:18 PM (permalink)
          DNOTTIS


          Dont worry I'll keep you guys in the loop.  I'll pass it along as soon as I get more information.


          Thank you so much for getting someone to look into this, others have given you a hard time about all of this but I and a few others here have the same issues and can back you up 100%.
           
          Again good job bro!
           
          #5
            kram36

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            Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:19 PM (permalink)
            Wonder what they had to screw up to get it to stutter?

            I will no longer do business with EVGA.

             
            #6
              Robs03gts

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              Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:22 PM (permalink)
              kram36


              Wonder what they had to screw up to get it to stutter?


              Why be like this bro? do you honestly think that me and the others who are having this issue are just making this stuff up or what? Its a real problem for many of us and even some members over at nvnews.net have mentioned it.
               
              Dnottis deserves credit for pushing this issue until someone finally stepped in and looked into it. We should thank people like dnottis who actually take the time to help get these issues resolved with the developers.
               
              #7
                chizow

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                Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:24 PM (permalink)
                Cool hope they get it sorted for you guys!
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                #8
                  Robs03gts

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                  Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:26 PM (permalink)
                  chizow


                  Cool hope they get it sorted for you guys!


                  Thanks man, me too.
                   
                  #9
                    kram36

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                    Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 5:53 PM (permalink)
                    Robs03gts


                    kram36


                    Wonder what they had to screw up to get it to stutter?


                    Why be like this bro? do you honestly think that me and the others who are having this issue are just making this stuff up or what? Its a real problem for many of us and even some members over at nvnews.net have mentioned it.
                     
                    Dnottis deserves credit for pushing this issue until someone finally stepped in and looked into it. We should thank people like dnottis who actually take the time to help get these issues resolved with the developers.


                    Be like what? Never said you where making it up. Take the time to help? Look at Louisville15's thread, I've been trying to help him out as much as I can think of. There is a difference between helping and complaining.

                    Do you know how many people don't have issues?

                    I will no longer do business with EVGA.

                     
                    #10
                      rafter1974

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                      Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:05 PM (permalink)
                      DNOTTIS


                      Well after a few days of silence, I got a reply tonight...
                       
                       
                       
                      Good news....or bad depending on the point of view

                      I finally got a repro so I am going to pass it on to our dev to look at it. I'll keep you updated on the status. It doesn't look like I will need to borrow your graphics card after all.

                      --------------------
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                      Sweet.

                      I'm glad they figured out whatever the problem is. Hopefully they can get it fixed relatively soon for you guys that are having issues.
                       
                      #11
                        Robs03gts

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                        Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:48 PM (permalink)
                        kram36



                        Be like what? Never said you where making it up.

                         
                        Well quite honestly most of your comments are very condescending rather you wish to admit it or not.
                         
                        kram36


                        Do you know how many people don't have issues?
                         
                         
                        And that matters because? this is thread is for those who do have issues, not for those who do not and seeing that you yourself do not suffer from these issues how bout doing those of us who are having problems a favor and keep your condescending remarks to yourself or better yet just leave the thread.
                        <message edited by Robs03gts on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 6:51 PM>
                         
                        #12
                          Louisville15

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                          Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:01 PM (permalink)
                          This is awesome news, I wonder how long problems like these take to fix once they've been reproduce? Either way I'm extremely happy to see this and to know they should have it fixed sometime in the future.

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                          #13
                            evganerd

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                            Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:07 PM (permalink)
                            This is good news. At least they are aware of the problem now.
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                            #14
                              kram36

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                              Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:15 PM (permalink)
                              Robs03gts


                              kram36



                              Be like what? Never said you where making it up.

                               
                              Well quite honestly most of your comments are very condescending rather you wish to admit it or not.
                               
                              kram36


                              Do you know how many people don't have issues?
                               
                               
                              And that matters because? this is thread is for those who do have issues, not for those who do not and seeing that you yourself do not suffer from these issues how bout doing those of us who are having problems a favor and keep your condescending remarks to yourself or better yet just leave the thread.


                              Geez a little up tight aren't we?

                              You know how many times I felt like telling some people to leave a thread that I felt were just in there complaining and not helping? I never told anyone to leave nor should you. I hope they get you guys straightened out too.

                              I will no longer do business with EVGA.

                               
                              #15
                                Robs03gts

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                                Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 7:39 PM (permalink)
                                kram36



                                Geez a little up tight aren't we?

                                You know how many times I felt like telling some people to leave a thread that I felt were just in there complaining and not helping? I never told anyone to leave nor should you. I hope they get you guys straightened out too.

                                 
                                Maybe im just taking you the wrong way and if I am then I apologize.
                                 
                                #16
                                  Rageypoo

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                                  Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:07 PM (permalink)
                                  the 3xx.xx drivers will be stutter free? ^+^
                                   
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                                  #17
                                    HeavyHemi

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                                    Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:12 PM (permalink)
                                    kram36


                                    Wonder what they had to screw up to get it to stutter?


                                    Perhaps it would have been better stated as 'I wonder what they did to duplicate the stutter' instead of leaving an impression others 'screwed up'.
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                                    #18
                                      flyhii

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                                      Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 10:17 PM (permalink)
                                      Hi All,
                                       
                                      After reading thru the other 2 threads concerning this issue I ran a little test w/ my EVGA GTX 470 SC to see if I could make it stutter while flying Aces High II.
                                       
                                      I set up Afterburner to log the card's vitals (GPU temp, GPU load %, voltage, fan speed %, clocks: GPU, CC's & mem, mem amount used) to a file.
                                      Then I intentionally set the voltage lower than stock (.987v>.937v) w/ Afterburner then ran the game for several minutes to see what the drivers would do to control the card according to the ever changing load demands placed on these cards. I also set up Task Manager in Performance tab to monitor the CPU core usage as well to see how the C2D (E8600 OC'd to 4 GHz) was performing. I chose to go this route as I was suspecting that the stutters were coming from a low voltage condition (& the odds of not harming the card were well in my favor ).
                                       
                                      I tried to post the results but this BBS (as most others) doesn't allow posting files except .jpg, .png & .gif files so I'll paraphrase:
                                       
                                      The game ran & was playable but stuttered. The vid card started out as it always had--59-60 FPS regardless & stutter-free (GPU at full clocks 625/1250/1701 @ .937v, 70*C, fan speed @ 89%, 63%-65% GPU usage, mem usage at 444Mb w/ Aero turned off w/ drivers in Adaptive Power Mode) & CPU running at 12%-13% core utilization across both cores. But within 5 minutes of flying the drivers (258.96 WQHL's) downclocked the vid card clocks as follows: 405/810/1701 @ .937v, 71*C, fanspeed @ 89%, 96%-99% GPU usage, mem usage at 445Mb. CPU held steady. FPS started to fluctuate from 47-60 FPS. After another 10 mins the drivers downclocked the following: 405/810/324 @ .887v, 63*C, fanspeed at 72%, 96%-99% GPU usage, mem usage at 445Mb. FPS now jumping from 36-57 w/ CPU still running steady as before. The stuttering got no worse & the game was still somewhat playable. Shut down the game, went into Afterburner & reset the voltage back to stock .987v setting then restarted AB to reset the card. Went back into the game & went up but the drivers would not reset off a restart of the game's .exe & held onto the last settings no matter what I did. The results being the same. I then shut down the game, went in AB & shut down (unchecked) the unlock voltage control in AB & left the rest as set.
                                       
                                      Then I performed a cold boot on my box to clear all out all mem & have the box start up fresh. Once all was back up I checked AB to ensure that settings had taken--all was fine. Knowing that the vid card's voltage is back at stock settings & AB can't touch them I then went into Aces High II & flew for approx 35 mins & got the following:
                                       
                                      The game ran stutter-free as it did before the above test w/ FPS locked at 59-60 regardless (GPU at full clocks 625/1250/1701 @ .987v, 71*C, fan speed @ 90%, 63%-67% GPU usage, mem usage at 445Mb) & CPU running steady at 12%-13% utilization across both cores. The vid card drivers made no attempt to change or adjust anything during the entire 2nd test time. Just like I like it!
                                       
                                      I make note that I use AB for the auto fan speed control & the vitals monitoring only. I usually leave the voltage control shut down in AB as I can't see where/why I would need to be messing w/ this as I don't think that my C2D--as good as it was showing to perform--could keep up w/ this 470 SC running flat out at stock clocks, much less OC'd. I also run using the NVCP to set all graphics rendering options-not the game. The drivers run w/ card v-synched & triple buffered to LCD's RR (I can't STAND tearing!). I use the game settings to set the level of eye candy (which is MAXED OUT!) as I simply LOVE beautiful graphical eye candy in the games I play along w/ smooth clean performance. I want it all!
                                       
                                      From this exercise I determined that the drivers do have some part to play in the stuttering by awarkwardly downclocking the card "thinking" that the card doesn't need to run at full speed. What I saw from the data was the drivers were shutting down the GPU/Cuda Core clocks (linked) then later the voltage & mem speed. Was interesting that the voltage setting & mem speed were showing to be related/linked. Even when the GPU usage went to full (this is from reduced cuda core performance--shader stuff being front loaded back onto GPU at reduced clocks) this did not trigger the drivers to reup the clocks & voltage back to full power so there is 1 thing to consider. This "could" also be triggered by a rippling PSU or a card OC that hasn't enough voltage available. I starting to believe that there is some built in voltage protection scheme in event of a power dip onboard (thus why I intentionally set the power low--.937v is almost back to 470 vanilla range of .925v w/ card clocks still at SC clocks--representative of a OC'd vid card on stock voltage setting) but can't/won't prove either way. The 2nd test showed that the drivers were now back to good clean control of the hardware & all is good--as it was before I started this test.
                                       
                                      This could also be from--I'm only thinking out loud so this is a THEORY, not fact--a 3rd party program (like AB, RT, NST, GPU-Z, etc) changing driver "defaults" (best I could come up with to explain) in relation to the vid card's BIOS image to achieve a desired result but somehow, some way in a few totally unrelated cases has "dirtied" the driver & created this issue. But the same thing can happen from a bad driver install/flakey vid card BIOS image as well so 'tis why I said this thought is a THEORY & not fact but could be a possibility--however rare it may actually be to have occurred.
                                       
                                      YMMV & take this post for what it's worth. A post w/ some information to share.
                                       
                                      The reality is that I reproduced the stutters on my GTX 470 SC & then cleaned them up on MY BOX.
                                       

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                                      #19
                                        dyno0919

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                                        Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Tuesday, August 03, 2010 11:23 PM (permalink)
                                        @flyhii, An interesting point, but I experience the stutter as well and my card doesn't downclock. I doubt this is the issue :(

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                                        #20
                                          Kamarad

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                                          Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 6:55 AM (permalink)
                                          Ok, this has been bothering so I have to ask....what exactly is "stuttering"?  Is it like where the screen skips or something?  I have watched one of the videos someone linked off of youtube with "evidence" showing stuttering but I saw nothing that looked like it.  Is is something that is visible or more easily noticed with a test program?  I mean...I THOUGHT I knew what shuttering was, but from what I read I never really got a clear definition of what is is.  If that's the case, maybe I'm stuttering and don't even realize it?  I mean, I know it looks great and I really don't see any inperfections or anything.  There was on time in SC2 when I replayed a cinematic video and it "skipped" some, but is that "stuttering"?  I'm a bit confused.
                                          <message edited by NDOT01 on Wednesday, August 04, 2010 6:58 AM>

                                           
                                          #21
                                            DNOTTIS

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                                            Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 7:47 AM (permalink)
                                            NDOT01


                                            Ok, this has been bothering so I have to ask....what exactly is "stuttering"?  Is it like where the screen skips or something?  I have watched one of the videos someone linked off of youtube with "evidence" showing stuttering but I saw nothing that looked like it.  Is is something that is visible or more easily noticed with a test program?  I mean...I THOUGHT I knew what shuttering was, but from what I read I never really got a clear definition of what is is.  If that's the case, maybe I'm stuttering and don't even realize it?  I mean, I know it looks great and I really don't see any inperfections or anything.  There was on time in SC2 when I replayed a cinematic video and it "skipped" some, but is that "stuttering"?  I'm a bit confused.





                                            The youtube videos just don't show it like you would see it.  Yea, its a skipping effect, like its missing a frame.
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                                            #22
                                              Louisville15

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                                              Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:08 AM (permalink)
                                              NDOT01


                                              Ok, this has been bothering so I have to ask....what exactly is "stuttering"?  Is it like where the screen skips or something?  I have watched one of the videos someone linked off of youtube with "evidence" showing stuttering but I saw nothing that looked like it.  Is is something that is visible or more easily noticed with a test program?  I mean...I THOUGHT I knew what shuttering was, but from what I read I never really got a clear definition of what is is.  If that's the case, maybe I'm stuttering and don't even realize it?  I mean, I know it looks great and I really don't see any inperfections or anything.  There was on time in SC2 when I replayed a cinematic video and it "skipped" some, but is that "stuttering"?  I'm a bit confused.


                                              Have you played TF2? I find it extremely similar to the effect when you are on fire, but not quite as severe. Basically, it's hard to tell in the videos unless you know what to look for, but it's incredibly noticeable and annoying when you are the one playing.

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                                              #23
                                                Kamarad

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                                                Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 8:44 AM (permalink)
                                                Ah, well then I probably don't "stutter" then.  I have something similiar to stuttering in World of Warcraft, but that is because Blizzard programmers are bunch of morons, lol.  That's probably more of a lag.

                                                 
                                                #24
                                                  Diplo

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                                                  Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 2:50 PM (permalink)
                                                  And whats the problem with my crysis stuttering ? :(


                                                  Anyways, good work, thank you.
                                                   
                                                  #25
                                                    DNOTTIS

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                                                    Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:01 PM (permalink)
                                                    Diplo


                                                    And whats the problem with my crysis stuttering ? :(


                                                    Anyways, good work, thank you.


                                                    What does the GPU usage look like while playing it??
                                                     
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                                                    #26
                                                      Diplo

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                                                      Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:08 PM (permalink)
                                                      its like 99%, same in metro, but still stuttering.  maybe you saw my crysis stuttering video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZOsd1GZwZ0 ) , its the same stuttering like this bad company 2 stuttering video on the big thread.
                                                       
                                                      #27
                                                        diynoob

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                                                        Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 3:13 PM (permalink)
                                                        Hmmm, I wonder if "the stutter" has to do with synchronization to the output device (monitor).  It will be interesting to see what Nvidia has to say about this.

                                                        I did notice maybe a missing frame or two in the BC2 video but I suspect that the stutter feels entirely different when you're in control vs. when you're just a passive observer. 


                                                        Intel I7 980x @ 4.6GHz for now | Corsair 800D (jigsawed top to fit quad rad)      | EVGA E760 Classified
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                                                        #28
                                                          Nahte27

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                                                          Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Wednesday, August 04, 2010 11:34 PM (permalink)
                                                          I'm glad that Nvidia has something tangible to work with now. It's nice to know that the true experts are now working on this. I hope they get results soon!

                                                          Oh, and I've experienced true stutter before. The Youtube videos don't really do it justice (probably because Youtube vids run at 10 fps, I think).
                                                           
                                                           
                                                          #29
                                                            DNOTTIS

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                                                            Re:Nvidia has reproduced the BF BC2 stutter!! Thursday, August 05, 2010 6:11 AM (permalink)
                                                            Guys try something for me - some one with the stutter.

                                                            Install the new Quadro 259.12 drivers, set LOD to CLAMP, single disp performance mode, prefer maximum performance in the NV CP.  Then for BF BC2 set SoundSystemSize in the gamesettings.ini from 1 to 2.


                                                            Set everything in the settings.ini for BF BC2 back to stock, or delete the file and start the game and re-setup your settings.


                                                            I may have found something but I need to see if the 259.12 are the reason or if its something else I've done (which until I can confirm I won't say just yet).


                                                            I know m4rcus is having better game play now with this.  But I need to test this further with someone else.


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                                                            #30
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