DC, x79, and PCIe 3

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linuxrouter

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DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Wednesday, July 04, 2012 8:29 PM (permalink)
I came across something interesting a few weeks back regarding the x79 board and the use of PCI-E 3 for DC that I thought might be of interest to other crunchers here. I initially had a pair of 680s setup via a Rampage IV board for running the Einstein GPU app which uses a lot of PCI-E bandwidth. One day, I installed a PCI-E 2.0 card in slot 2a which is an x8 slot on the Rampage IV board. As soon as I did that, I began to see a performance improvement on the 680 cards which were running at 8 GT/s via the x16 slots. The improvement was approximately 16.5%. I had already seen a 15% increase from running the cards at 8 GT/s over 5 GT/s prior to installing the PCI-E 2.0 card. This came as a surprise to me as the PCI-E 2.0 card is sitting completely idle and should not have any effect over the other cards. The only thing I can think of is that by having this card installed, something happens with the PCI-E controller that results in a further increase in bandwidth. Interestingly enough, if I install a PCI-E 1.1 card or another PCI-E 3.0 card, I do not get the performance boost.

At the time, I thought perhaps this was something related to the board, BIOS, or CPU. This week I decided to start testing out the 680s via my EVGA x79 FTW board to see what would happen if I added the PCI-E 2.0 card on this board. Bare in mind that this board has a different CPU from the other board. I tested with and without the PCI-E 2.0 card installed and sure enough, I see a 16.5% increase in performance again with the PCI-E 2.0 card installed and the 680 running at 8 GT/s. I had the 2.0 card installed in both slot 3 (x4) and slot 4 (x16) and saw the increase in both cases. So it appears that this interesting side effect is not tied to a specific board, CPU, or slot. To date I do not know for sure why this happens. I need to see if I can find an application that can measure the bandwidth to see if the performance boost can be attributed to change in bandwidth.

As a result of all this, I ended up picking up a Zotac 9800 GT card for $40 on E-bay that is short enough to not impede airflow for the 680 sitting above it. The card is just short enough to make it so the fan on the card above is completely open and is sitting by idle. Like with my other 2.0 card, I get the boost on the PCI-E 3 cards. I thought I would share my latest evil experiment for anyone else here running x79 and PCI-E 3 cards for DC. I am not sure what other projects out there can take advantage of the PCI-E bandwidth but if you happen to have a similar setup, it might be worth a try to see if you can get an boost in GPU performance. Now I am thinking of picking up an Ivy Bridge processor at some point to see how its PCI-E 3 controller handles compared to my other CPUs. Unfortunately that CPU is limited to 16-lanes which will limit my card options. Sorry for the wall of text.
<message edited by linuxrouter on Wednesday, July 04, 2012 8:39 PM>
 
#1
    z3r0t0l0rence

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    Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Wednesday, July 04, 2012 10:42 PM (permalink)
    That sounds like the PCI-E 3.0 controller has a bug in it.  If this is truly the case that is the only explanation for its odd behavior.  It is possible that the bios/ chipset might need a update to get this fixed. 
     
                                                

     
    #2
      RHMash

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      Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Wednesday, July 04, 2012 11:57 PM (permalink)
      z3r0t0l0rence


      That sounds like the PCI-E 3.0 controller has a bug in it.  If this is truly the case that is the only explanation for its odd behavior.  It is possible that the bios/ chipset might need a update to get this fixed. 

      I wouldn't call an improvement a bug, exactly.  And if the improvement doesn't really improve BOINC, it couldn't be considered an exploit, either.  Maybe it was something that was just overlooked or not mentioned because companies want buyers to also spend money on the newer gpus.  I don'y have a gpu that can fully utilize PCIe 3, can anyone confirm this for z77 or is it only x79?  An upgrade could be in my future, my 460 has been abused for the year I've had it and keeps asking for more, but a newer card would keep it company.


       
      #3
        Simba123

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        Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:25 AM (permalink)
        That's a pretty amazing find! 
        i wonder if the eVGA techs can reproduce that in the lab?
         
        I must admit, id does sound like a bug in the drivers.  Seems like
        they are not functioning properly until that extra card is added.
         
        but which driver? it can't be BIOS as that differs from each board.  so we are left with either the nVidia driver, or the chipset itself.
         
        Great Find!!
         
            


           Petition for an Australian Evga Direct Sales Site
                                       
         

         
        #4
          z3r0t0l0rence

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          Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:26 AM (permalink)
          Simba123


          That's a pretty amazing find! 
          i wonder if the eVGA techs can reproduce that in the lab?

          I must admit, id does sound like a bug in the drivers.  Seems like
          they are not functioning properly until that extra card is added.

          but which driver? it can't be BIOS as that differs from each board.  so we are left with either the nVidia driver, or the chipset itself.

          Great Find!!


           
          I didn't think about the driver.  Though the PCI-E 3.0 controller or the chipset is where I'd focus on how, why or what is causing the decrease in bandwidth without the 3rd gpu.
           
                                                      

           
          #5
            Johnny_Utah

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            Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 11:34 AM (permalink)
            Wow, this is indeed interesting LR.  Great find! 
             
            #6
              linuxrouter

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              Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 11:44 AM (permalink)
              Simba123


              That's a pretty amazing find! 
              i wonder if the eVGA techs can reproduce that in the lab?

              I must admit, id does sound like a bug in the drivers.  Seems like
              they are not functioning properly until that extra card is added.

              but which driver? it can't be BIOS as that differs from each board.  so we are left with either the nVidia driver, or the chipset itself.

              Great Find!!

               
              I have been running Linux with driver 295.33. Presently, 295.33 is the only driver from NVIDIA that will enable the slots at 8 GT/s and because of that I have no way to test another driver in Linux. I have a support ticket open with NVIDIA for this issue. I hope NVIDIA will be able to find a fix for the newer drivers as the person I have been E-mailing back and forth with seemed to indicate that the newest drivers should be able to run at 8 GT/s as well. I still need to test this out with Windows and the latest NVIDIA drivers. I may do that today. I found this link here for a PCI-E concurrent bandwidth test. Unfortunately the NVIDIA forums are down at the moment so I am unable to grab the source code.
               
              http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=253215
               
              The other option would be to try out the AMD 7970 and see if a similar performance improvement occurs with the AMD card. The Einstein GPU project I am running is also available for AMD/OpenCL.
              <message edited by linuxrouter on Thursday, July 05, 2012 11:48 AM>
               
              #7
                Afterburner

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                Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 11:55 AM (permalink)
                This is a very interesting thread. I am learning a lot thank you!
                 
                BTW... Not sure why... But the folks that seem to be in the "know" @ GPUGRID say to stay away from 295 drivers... Check out the second posters sig in this link...
                 
                http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3040#25888
                 
                #8
                  RHMash

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                  Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:20 PM (permalink)
                  Afterburner


                  This is a very interesting thread. I am learning a lot thank you!

                  BTW... Not sure why... But the folks that seem to be in the "know" @ GPUGRID say to stay away from 295 drivers... Check out the second posters sig in this link...

                  http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3040#25888

                  I'm pretty sure the "no to 295" is all of BOINC projects that can use nvidia gpus....


                   
                  #9
                    linuxrouter

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                    Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:50 PM (permalink)
                    Afterburner

                    This is a very interesting thread. I am learning a lot thank you!

                    BTW... Not sure why... But the folks that seem to be in the "know" @ GPUGRID say to stay away from 295 drivers... Check out the second posters sig in this link...

                    http://www.gpugrid.net/forum_thread.php?id=3040#25888

                     
                    The Windows 295 drivers have a fairly significant bug where if the monitor goes to sleep the CUDA device becomes unavailable. When that happens, BOINC no longer has any means of processing data via the card. Einstein put a filter in place for driver 295 to prevent hosts from receiving work with this driver version. The problem was resolved in a later driver version.
                    <message edited by linuxrouter on Friday, July 06, 2012 11:54 AM>
                     
                    #10
                      linuxrouter

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                      Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Thursday, July 05, 2012 10:58 PM (permalink)
                      For reference, here are processing time numbers for the various slot configurations I tested with the Einstein app in Linux via two motherboards. These values are approximate as the processing time varies due to CPU dependance.

                      Seconds ~ | PCI-E Configuration

                      Rampage IV

                      2920 : 2.0 x8
                      2280 : 3.0 x8  - Approximately the same as 2.0 x16
                      1975 : 3.0 x8  - PCI-E 2.0 card installed in slot 2a
                      1945 : 3.0 x16 - PCI-E 2.0 card not installed
                      1640 : 3.0 x16 - PCI-E 2.0 card installed in slot 2a


                      EVGA x79 FTW

                      2458 : 3.0 x4
                      1895 : 3.0 x16 - PCI-E 2.0 card not installed
                      1580 : 3.0 x16 - PCI-E 2.0 card installed in slot 3 (x4) or 4 (x16)
                       
                      The difference with and without the 2.0 card varies between 15 and 16.5% from what I have seen so far.
                       
                      #11
                        Afterburner

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                        Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Friday, July 06, 2012 8:17 AM (permalink)
                        OK... I am slow remember... The lower the number the higher the performance correct? 
                         
                        #12
                          linuxrouter

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                          Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Friday, July 06, 2012 11:06 AM (permalink)
                          The number is the time it took to complete the task. The lower the number, the better.
                           
                          #13
                            Johnny_Utah

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                            Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Friday, July 06, 2012 11:25 AM (permalink)
                            That's insane.  Seriously cool stuff.
                             
                            #14
                              linuxrouter

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                              Re:DC, x79, and PCIe 3 Friday, July 06, 2012 12:04 PM (permalink)
                              Johnny_Utah

                              That's insane.  Seriously cool stuff.

                               
                              I am very happy with the way the x79 board runs with the Kepler cards. I have been able to get a significant increase in production out of my x79 crunching rig because of this along with some other tweaks. The optimization is a lot of fun and very addicting. :)
                               
                              #15

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