chipsets and CPUs

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tcharp

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chipsets and CPUs Tuesday, July 10, 2012 9:56 AM (permalink)
Maybe I'm just getting old but I'm also becoming confused.
I'm wanting to build a new box but I'm having some issues understanding available hardware.
Sandy Bridge predates Ivy Bridge and yet I'm noting the LGA2011 socket using the Sandy Bridge CPUs.  Does this mean the 2011 no longer represents pin count like 1155.  At least that is  what I think I'm reading.  Also noted that many of the socket 2011 mobos seems to be sort of expensive.  Are they really worth so much more.
Then there is the whole chipset thing.  Z68, Z77, Z79, and X sets and P sets and H sets. 
I guess I'm missing something in the criteria, or perhaps I'm creating something where there is nothing.
It was my understanding that the 'big' deal with Sandy was graphics onboard the CPU.  I've never been a fan of putting extra load on the CPU for graphics.
How does this work with GPU card(s) I will certainly have in the new system?  Does that technology just sit dormant?
I guess part of this is because the new PCIe 3.0 is only available on some CPUs, but I'm finding it hard to sort all this crap out.
I realize that is a bunch of questions but I would appreciate any help you might be able to give me to organize my thinking on this stuff.
 
Thanks in advance,
-TC
 
 
 
EVGA 680i A1 P33
Intel E6850
8Gb Corsair 6400C5DHX 1.8v 5 5 5 18 2T
EVGA 01G-P3-1352-KR GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit
WinXP Pro x32 sp3
Windows 7 Pro x64 
3 SAMSUNG HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
2 SMASUNG HD753LJ 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
Samsung Syncmaster SAM03F4 x 2 
 
#1
    lehpron

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    Re:chipsets and CPUs Tuesday, July 10, 2012 12:12 PM (permalink)
    If you recall back when Netburst was new, Intel used the same socket for laptop, desktop and server = mPGA478.  Over the years and architectures, Intel realized each market has their own needs, so multiple sockets came (not like that couldn't afford it ).  Midrange desktop on down stayed in what Intel calls their mainstream client socket (LGA775) and it's successors (LGA115x), but high-end desktop moved into one of Intel's many server sockets and that's where that market stayed with LGA1366 and LGA2011.  They don't overlap or mix'n match, or represent each other.
     
    I think what bugs people most is that these chipsets and sockets are all on different schedules of succession, so the simplified straight-line thinking of yesteryears "newer is always better" doesn't apply anymore.  This is because of AMD; for instance, Intel broke tradition of introducing high-end first beginig with Sandy Bridge because AMD could only afford to go after P55, thus Intel brought Sandy Bridge as P67 first instead of X79 first.  AMD never bothered to make a competitor to X58 and so far haven't with X79.  If anything, P67 was pre-emptive, and they over-estimated the impact of the very late AMD Bulldozer, we all did.  So while Bulldozer's successor is a few months away, Intel pre-empts again with Ivy Bridge (Z77) which will no doubt win again.
     
    We could conclude Intel moving high-end to another socket was a pre-emptive move against AMD's first quad-core and what it could do, but that would imply a lot more than rumors avilable even at the time; especially since the first Phenom quad performed like a Core 2 Quad.  It was my theory at the time, but few agreed with me.
     
    Anyway, back to your question regarding PCIe 3.0 and new cards, this recent review of the latest GTX680 and HD7970 shows they don't loose much more than 25% performance even if put a PCIe 1.1 x16 slot, which is what you have in your 680i.  Considering you had only one 8800GTX this whle time, what are the chances you only 1-2 graphics cards versus more?  That is what separates the sockets; Intel made X58 and X79 for access to 6-core processors and enough PCIe lanes for more than two graphics cards.  If only intending 1-2 graphics cards, you can stay with LGA1155.
     
    Just so you know, despite quads been around for six years, most games are still coded for 2-4 cores because most folks still get only those processors, so don't get a 6-core for gaming unless you intend to keep it for as long as you had your E6850.  Games take a few years to make from the ground-up, so it would be a gamble.  6-cores are meant for more than gaming, like photo or video editting and encoding, etc.
     
    But you want something simple, I recommend a Z77 board with a single GTX680 and Core i 3000 series part.  Just so you know, Intel killed the freedom to pick any CPU and overclock with Sandy Bridge.  Now all new processors are limited and those with letter K are flexible, popular and expensive.  Also, since Nehalem in 2008/2009, Intel included a new kind of hyperthreating, which has a hit/miss performance improvement, usualy 5%, and some games don't like it.  So I suggest the 3570K w/o HT and the K for overclocking if you intend to someday.  As for PSU, get a 500W unit with at least 35A on 12v if you aren't overclocking, add 50% if you do intend with a second GTX680 someday.
     
    Just so you know, Intel wil pushing another new architecture by spring next year, in a new socket set, LGA1150 will succeed LGA1155, so of course processors won't mix and match.  If you can wait 8 months, it would be good for you.  If not, it doesn't matter what you get, even if AMD; they're all faster than a Core 2 Duo with a 8800GTX.  By next year, both AMD and Intel's integrated video will get very close to your 8800GTX for comparison, so you've waited long enough, IMO.
     
    Also, your resolution isn't out-of-date, unless you want more.
    How CPU watts relate to degrees? - How can overclocking affect CPU lifespan? - TEC/Peltier definitions, formulas and temperature estimations

     
    For Intel processors, 0.123 x TDP = Continuous Amps at 12v [source].  This includes around 30% overhead, so it isn't minimum for operation.  TDP is not actual per CPU, it is a range for multiple processors to qualify for the same OEM cooler and power rating, and allows Intel to debut future processors in the same TDP.
     
    #2
      tcharp

      • Total Posts : 187
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      Re:chipsets and CPUs Tuesday, July 10, 2012 1:01 PM (permalink)
      Wow, that's extremely informative.  Thank you very much.
      You're correct.  It is unlikely I will run more than 2 GPUs.  Odds are I will only run a single card.
      Actually I updated the 8800GTX to EVGA 01G-P3-1352-KR GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit  a while ago.  I guess I didn't update my profile.
       
      -TC
      EVGA 680i A1 P33
      Intel E6850
      8Gb Corsair 6400C5DHX 1.8v 5 5 5 18 2T
      EVGA 01G-P3-1352-KR GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit
      WinXP Pro x32 sp3
      Windows 7 Pro x64 
      3 SAMSUNG HD501LJ 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
      2 SMASUNG HD753LJ 750GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s
      Samsung Syncmaster SAM03F4 x 2 
       
      #3
        thegardentool

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        Re:chipsets and CPUs Monday, August 06, 2012 8:17 PM (permalink)
        And to add to that, the H chipset represents pretty much the basic stuff, akin to the old G.  Q is still aimed more toward a corporate enviroment.  P was the performance chipset through P67 and didn't come with integrated graphics, and was replaced by Z68 that combined all the features of P67, added a few more, and allowed the use of the integrated graphics in the Sandy Bridge CPUs.  P was dropped for the 70 series.
         
        X has been for the enthusiant platform since the Core 2 days with the X38.  It now also is a different socket, and contains different features since X58 LGA 1366.
         
        Honestly the platform you should use depends on the usage.  If it's strictly gaming then a Z77 and an i5 3570k should fit the build.  If you need to run VMs, do a lot of video encoding or editing, etc that can use the additional features of X79 or cores it has available then it might be the better system for you.  AMD if you are strapped for cash on the build as it's still a nice price per performance but since lagging behind Intel since the Core 2 days.
         
        As for a video card, it'll also depend on your usage but for gaming just get the best you can afford.
        Intel i7 3930k C2 (@4.6GHz) /w HeatKiller 3.0 Black Chrome Block | ASUS X79 Rampage IV Formula /w EK VREG Block | eVGA GTX 580 Classified Ultra HydroCopper | Corsair Dominator GT 4x4GB DDR3 2133 | Intel 320 160GB SSD | 1TB WD Cavier Black | Corsair AX850 | Silverstone TJ07 (Inverted) | NEC EA23WMi | Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 |
         
        #4
          anony-moose

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          Re:chipsets and CPUs Tuesday, August 07, 2012 8:34 AM (permalink)
          My personal advice is for OC'ing, pick Sandy Bridge over Ivy Bridge. There are issues with the thermal transfer on Ivy Bridge procs that make them less overclockable. If you are strictly gaming and don't really need anything more than low-to-moderate OC's, Z77 Ivy Bridge is still a viable option. Just make sure to invest in good cooling.
           
          Personally, my Core i5 2500K has been the best for gaming (I don't have any IB experience) and seems good to go for quite some time for future games. Plus, haven't checked this, but it makes sense that 2nd-Gen Sandy Bridge Core i5/i7 CPU's and Z68 mobo's will have gone down in price because of the release of 3rd-Gen Ivy Bridge. The i5 2500K would be my recommendation for overall most well-rounded experience.
           
          (Unless you need moar RAM for virtualization apps, like I do for my upcoming project; I'm going with X79 Sandy Bridge E)
           
          #5
            thegardentool

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            Re:chipsets and CPUs Wednesday, August 08, 2012 9:58 AM (permalink)
            anony-moose


            My personal advice is for OC'ing, pick Sandy Bridge over Ivy Bridge. There are issues with the thermal transfer on Ivy Bridge procs that make them less overclockable. If you are strictly gaming and don't really need anything more than low-to-moderate OC's, Z77 Ivy Bridge is still a viable option. Just make sure to invest in good cooling.

            Personally, my Core i5 2500K has been the best for gaming (I don't have any IB experience) and seems good to go for quite some time for future games. Plus, haven't checked this, but it makes sense that 2nd-Gen Sandy Bridge Core i5/i7 CPU's and Z68 mobo's will have gone down in price because of the release of 3rd-Gen Ivy Bridge. The i5 2500K would be my recommendation for overall most well-rounded experience.

            (Unless you need moar RAM for virtualization apps, like I do for my upcoming project; I'm going with X79 Sandy Bridge E)


            Most resellers haven't offered much of a price discount on Sandy Bridge, and likely won't for at least awhile.  Micro Center is probably one exception where you can find good deals on Sandy Bridge, but they will end up offering good prices on Ivy Bridge in time too.
            Intel i7 3930k C2 (@4.6GHz) /w HeatKiller 3.0 Black Chrome Block | ASUS X79 Rampage IV Formula /w EK VREG Block | eVGA GTX 580 Classified Ultra HydroCopper | Corsair Dominator GT 4x4GB DDR3 2133 | Intel 320 160GB SSD | 1TB WD Cavier Black | Corsair AX850 | Silverstone TJ07 (Inverted) | NEC EA23WMi | Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 |
             
            #6

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