What is up with these teens?
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2012/04/12/jon-lovitz-tweet-exposes-anti-semitic-prank-by-3-teenage-girls-gets-them/?intcmp=features
Wow!

Good for him.  Maybe the girls will learn there are consequences for their actions......because it looks like they are well on their way to becoming really useful members of society.

While the "prank" was in poor taste and I'm not saying they should have gone with out punishment, but permenant expulsion for something that took place off school grounds is a bit steep.
 
Now if there was a morality statute their parents agreed to that dictates that their behavior outside normal class time and school sponsored events is subject to scrutiny and can lead up to and including expulsion then they got what they deserved.

Porpoise Hork


While the "prank" was in poor taste and I'm not saying they should have gone with out punishment, but permenant expulsion for something that took place off school grounds is a bit steep.

Now if there was a morality statute their parents agreed to that dictates that their behavior outside normal class time and school sponsored events is subject to scrutiny and can lead up to and including expulsion then they got what they deserved.

 
A lot of schools are now getting very strict bullying policies.  So even if the harassment takes place outside of school property, or on-line, many schools are protecting kids by bringing the hammer down hard.  If bullying takes place in the school, outside of the school, on-line, etc., there is no escape for the one being bullied.  Especially if the parents can't stop it, and the police won't stop it, thank goodness the school will at least do something.
 
Bullying isn't like when I was a kid.  You might get punched in the face, or pushed around a bit.  Now it's constant and much more vicious.  There have been kids murdered, severely gang beaten by up to a dozen kids or more, others have felt so victimized with no avenue for escape, that after years of assault and public humiliation they kill themselves.  There needs to be a ZERO tolerance policy.....you don't listen, go learn at home.

Porpoise Hork


While the "prank" was in poor taste and I'm not saying they should have gone with out punishment, but permenant expulsion for something that took place off school grounds is a bit steep.

Now if there was a morality statute their parents agreed to that dictates that their behavior outside normal class time and school sponsored events is subject to scrutiny and can lead up to and including expulsion then they got what they deserved.

 
My guess is that these girls done even really know what it is to be antisemitic.
I would also guess that when caught, the standard first line of defense for kids is "It was only a prank".
Toilet paper in trees and bushes is a prank. Nobody thinks this is a prank. There is nothing funny about it, and id love to see how they justify telling everyone that it was just a prank without any element of humor in it. 
 
Although, i am with you on the school becoming "The long arm of the law" in this case. That seem a bit out there.

kaninja

Porpoise Hork


While the "prank" was in poor taste and I'm not saying they should have gone with out punishment, but permenant expulsion for something that took place off school grounds is a bit steep.

Now if there was a morality statute their parents agreed to that dictates that their behavior outside normal class time and school sponsored events is subject to scrutiny and can lead up to and including expulsion then they got what they deserved.

A lot of schools are now getting very strict bullying policies.  So even if the harassment takes place outside of school property, or on-line, many schools are protecting kids by bringing the hammer down hard.  If bullying takes place in the school, outside of the school, on-line, etc., there is no escape for the one being bullied.  Especially if the parents can't stop it, and the police won't stop it, thank goodness the school will at least do something.

Bullying isn't like when I was a kid.  You might get punched in the face, or pushed around a bit.  Now it's constant and much more vicious.  There have been kids murdered, severely gang beaten by up to a dozen kids or more, others have felt so victimized with no avenue for escape, that after years of assault and public humiliation they kill themselves.  There needs to be a ZERO tolerance policy.....you don't listen, go learn at home.

Oh I totally agree with you on this and bullying needs to be treated as a hate crime. My line of thought was expel them for the remainder of the year and make them repeat the entire grade next year. (if it was a public school).
 
 But in this case with these three after looking at the twitter pic of the three of them... I didn't look at them before, but they got off easy and the police should have charged them with vandalism, and deficating in public at a minimum on top of what the school did.

While the girls were not charged, police are investigating one of their mothers, who allegedly drove the girls to and from the home they vandalized.

 
  .....strange people...

Please everyone, no cursing is allowed even if disguised by asterisks. Cursing has been removed.

yeah I always forget that "wth" with an f is also censored here...

i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

 
.....and when the courts and parents do nothing?  This is totally within the schools rights to protect the children that attend.  You can be sure that those girls were being no angels at school while at the same time marking that girls property with Swastikas......a symbol of a regime responsible for the worst genocidal atrocity against the Jewish people....and the police couldn't do anything because it could be washed away.....sickening.

Ahh they cant even get the swastikas right.

drunkie

i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

facepalm

kaninja

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

.....and when the courts and parents do nothing?  This is totally within the schools rights to protect the children that attend.  You can be sure that those girls were being no angels at school while at the same time marking that girls property with Swastikas......a symbol of a regime responsible for the worst genocidal atrocity against the Jewish people....and the police couldn't do anything because it could be washed away.....sickening.

 
if the courts feel it isn't a crime you can't just make up a law to punish them with. the act they did is not the issue. we can all sit here an say how wrong it is. but that doesn't give  people a free hand to  act outside of there control area. this is a issue that should have  been brought to the parents an it is on them to handle. how the parents handle it is on them. the parents not handling it the way we would like doesn't make it ok for a school to over step it's grounds. the school should have no say at all on what a child does outside of school.

"While the girls were not charged, police are investigating one of their mothers, who allegedly drove the girls to and from the home they vandalized."
 
How do you expect the parents to "handle it" when they condone or contribute to such acts? I look it as this.....the act was perpetrated against a student by students from the same school. Whether the act was comitted on or off school grounds I say kudos for the principal and the school taking action in reprimanding these children for such acts.

GODKILLER


"While the girls were not charged, police are investigating one of their mothers, who allegedly drove the girls to and from the home they vandalized."
 
How do you expect the parents to "handle it" when they condone or contribute to such acts? I look it as this.....the act was perpetrated against a student by students from the same school. Whether the act was comitted on or off school grounds I say kudos for the principal and the school taking action in reprimanding these children for such acts.

 
parents handle many issues the way we  might not like. that doesn't mean we should be allowed to go do there parenting job for them. but read you own comment the police are looking into  charges on the mother so looks like something might come of it.
 
the ends don't justify the means. so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop? prayers are not allowed in schools, should the schools start expelling kids that hit church on sunday? the school learns kids were at a party this weekend they should be allowed to expel the kids for it? even if there parents approved of them being at a party? when you open this door where does it stop? sorry  i don't think the school should be allowed to act on things happening outside of school. right now the school might be in line with your moral values so you support there action to punish for anything. but next time what if  your values don't line up with the schools thinking ,you will be screwed as you already given the school the power to act.
 
school has the power within there grounds. outside of that the school should have no say an it should fall on the parents

Karma at it's finest. 

drunkie
 
so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop?

So what happens when the traditional school model is no longer the norm? Where the "school grounds" extend into the internet and the child's home? The movement for change of school standards is ongoing and likely to be revamped within our lifetime. The children performed a criminal act, that is being overlooked due to a loophole and they are pursuing the only tangible avenue against the parent who condones criminal acts. This is no different than parents who support the "welfare lifestyle" and take no part in their children's upbringing relying on "the system" to do it for them. I really don't see a reason to balk when "the system" actually starts doing that act for the parents. Or would you prefer more stringent clauses in regard to child rearing, which would allow for CPS to remove kids in any "failing" home that involves any potential criminal act putting them as wards of the respective state? Personally I'd see that as far more reaching than what you are implying here would occur through your giant leap of logic.

drunkie

GODKILLER


"While the girls were not charged, police are investigating one of their mothers, who allegedly drove the girls to and from the home they vandalized."
 
How do you expect the parents to "handle it" when they condone or contribute to such acts? I look it as this.....the act was perpetrated against a student by students from the same school. Whether the act was comitted on or off school grounds I say kudos for the principal and the school taking action in reprimanding these children for such acts.

parents handle many issues the way we  might not like. that doesn't mean we should be allowed to go do there parenting job for them. but read you own comment the police are looking into  charges on the mother so looks like something might come of it.

the ends don't justify the means. so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop? prayers are not allowed in schools, should the schools start expelling kids that hit church on sunday? the school learns kids were at a party this weekend they should be allowed to expel the kids for it? even if there parents approved of them being at a party? when you open this door where does it stop? sorry  i don't think the school should be allowed to act on things happening outside of school. right now the school might be in line with your moral values so you support there action to punish for anything. but next time what if  your values don't line up with the schools thinking ,you will be screwed as you already given the school the power to act.

school has the power within there grounds. outside of that the school should have no say an it should fall on the parents

See here is the thing. This is very likely a private school. As such they do not have the same boundries and limitations for the students actions outside of school sponsored activities. I am willing to bet that the parent of each child signed some sort of morality agreement in relation to its students behavior in and outside the school. That any action that violates this agreement can be met with swift disciplinary action.  I know this because my wife and I are looking at private schools for our daughter and every single one of them has something like this and they tell you this up front when you sit down to talk about your child attending that institution.
 
If this school has an agreement in place then the school is perfectly within their rights to expell the offending students as they have conducted themselves in a manner that is in violation of this agreement.  In this case I completely agree with the school's actions and that the girls got off lucky by not having charges filed against them..  yet...

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

 
I agree, it's none of the school business if it happens off school grounds. It was wrong for girls to do that. They shouldn't be kicked out of school for rest of the school year (just over a month). This kind of stuff happens when parents can no longer use a belt or schools can't give spanking for kids acting out.
 
A hate crime for drawing something on a sidewalk? That's going way too far with nanny state. You want to ruin a kids future over drawing something stupid on someone sidewalk... 
 
 
 

phades

drunkie
 
so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop?

So what happens when the traditional school model is no longer the norm? Where the "school grounds" extend into the internet and the child's home? The movement for change of school standards is ongoing and likely to be revamped within our lifetime. The children performed a criminal act, that is being overlooked due to a loophole and they are pursuing the only tangible avenue against the parent who condones criminal acts. This is no different than parents who support the "welfare lifestyle" and take no part in their children's upbringing relying on "the system" to do it for them. I really don't see a reason to balk when "the system" actually starts doing that act for the parents. Or would you prefer more stringent clauses in regard to child rearing, which would allow for CPS to remove kids in any "failing" home that involves any potential criminal act putting them as wards of the respective state? Personally I'd see that as far more reaching than what you are implying here would occur through your giant leap of logic.

 
you say parents take no part in the child's upbringing an  rely on the system to do it for them. yet  support this very thing when you let the school take the job out of the parents hands
yes why let parents raise there kids when we can have the schools or governments do it for them?  school grounds should not extend into the internet. your jumping to some far off base assumptions.i don't support the schools overstepping there bounds so why would you think i would support  cps doing it. ( cps is a joke anyways. it is worse then a bad home in most cases). i think you need to let the parents parent .your whole argument really is hard to address without going into political  crap. if the law doesn't call it a crime so we should side step laws or boundary's to find ways to punish them? seems your more worried about punishment an not so much worried about whats right an wrong an i fully disagree with that.

Porpoise Hork

drunkie

GODKILLER


"While the girls were not charged, police are investigating one of their mothers, who allegedly drove the girls to and from the home they vandalized."
 
How do you expect the parents to "handle it" when they condone or contribute to such acts? I look it as this.....the act was perpetrated against a student by students from the same school. Whether the act was comitted on or off school grounds I say kudos for the principal and the school taking action in reprimanding these children for such acts.

parents handle many issues the way we  might not like. that doesn't mean we should be allowed to go do there parenting job for them. but read you own comment the police are looking into  charges on the mother so looks like something might come of it.

the ends don't justify the means. so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop? prayers are not allowed in schools, should the schools start expelling kids that hit church on sunday? the school learns kids were at a party this weekend they should be allowed to expel the kids for it? even if there parents approved of them being at a party? when you open this door where does it stop? sorry  i don't think the school should be allowed to act on things happening outside of school. right now the school might be in line with your moral values so you support there action to punish for anything. but next time what if  your values don't line up with the schools thinking ,you will be screwed as you already given the school the power to act.

school has the power within there grounds. outside of that the school should have no say an it should fall on the parents

See here is the thing. This is very likely a private school. As such they do not have the same boundries and limitations for the students actions outside of school sponsored activities. I am willing to bet that the parent of each child signed some sort of morality agreement in relation to its students behavior in and outside the school. That any action that violates this agreement can be met with swift disciplinary action.  I know this because my wife and I are looking at private schools for our daughter and every single one of them has something like this and they tell you this up front when you sit down to talk about your child attending that institution.

If this school has an agreement in place then the school is perfectly within their rights to expell the offending students as they have conducted themselves in a manner that is in violation of this agreement.  In this case I completely agree with the school's actions and that the girls got off lucky by not having charges filed against them..  yet...

 
 
 
a private school the parent is paying them to give them these rights an powers to act . so there would be a huge difference if it is like you saying an is a private school. but i can't find anywhere claiming it was a private school in the story

MSim

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

I agree, it's none of the school business if it happens off school grounds. It was wrong for girls to do that. They shouldn't be kicked out of school for rest of the school year (just over a month). This kind of stuff happens when parents can no longer use a belt or schools can't give spanking for kids acting out.

A hate crime for drawing something on a sidewalk? That's going way too far with nanny state. You want to ruin a kids future over drawing something stupid on someone sidewalk... 

Im guessing neither of you have never been bullied.  Never been on the recieving end of the endless torment and ridicule be your peers. every day dreading just getting out of bed to go to school because its going to be another day of people ripping into you constantly because you're a little overwight.  taking what little self esteem you have and ripping it apart as they laugh at you. you resent them, you hate them, you want bad and violent things to happen to them.  it changes you it makes you into someone you are not. one of three things happens. either you manage to overcome it and move on, you snap and there is another Columbine horror show ont he evening news, or you kill yourself. 
 
All because some kids decided that it was funny to make fun of you because of your weight, religious beliefs, sexual confusion or whatever it may be. 
 
 I know what it feels like. I have been there.. I was that fat kid in grade school who got tormented..
 
  It has to stop and the only way it will is swift and firm action against those who comit these acts and bring their parents to justice as well.  They are just as guilty of it by allowing it to continue and in many cases like this one take part in it.
  

  
 

Porpoise Hork

MSim

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

I agree, it's none of the school business if it happens off school grounds. It was wrong for girls to do that. They shouldn't be kicked out of school for rest of the school year (just over a month). This kind of stuff happens when parents can no longer use a belt or schools can't give spanking for kids acting out.

A hate crime for drawing something on a sidewalk? That's going way too far with nanny state. You want to ruin a kids future over drawing something stupid on someone sidewalk... 

Im guessing neither of you have never been bullied.  Never been on the recieving end of the endless torment and ridicule be your peers. every day dreading just getting out of bed to go to school because its going to be another day of people ripping into you constantly because you're a little overwight.  taking what little self esteem you have and ripping it apart as they laugh at you. you resent them, you hate them, you want bad and violent things to happen to them.  it changes you it makes you into someone you are not. one of three things happens. either you manage to overcome it and move on, you snap and there is another Columbine horror show ont he evening news, or you kill yourself. 

All because some kids decided that it was funny to make fun of you because of your weight, religious beliefs, sexual confusion or whatever it may be. 

I know what it feels like. I have been there.. I was that fat kid in grade school who got tormented..

It has to stop and the only way it will is swift and firm action against those who comit these acts and bring their parents to justice as well.  They are just as guilty of it by allowing it to continue and in many cases like this one take part in it.
 

  
 

 
this has nothing to do with it. we have not supported the kids actions. but just cuz they are wrong for something doesn't mean we should twist laws over step boundary's. if you do then your actions are no better then the child. how can you tell a kid to respect whats right an wrong then turn around an not follow your own rules you set for them. it is action like that which create the mess. it's like telling a cop he doesn't have to follow the laws when he is trying to catch a criminal. if you do that now the cop is just as much a criminal as the criminal.
 
but as for the bully thing. on set days any white kid that went to school got jumped. many kids would skip cuz they was scared. then others would goto school an fight. those of us who was willing to fight back was left alone while the ones who ran didn't. we earned our respect. i went to a very very ruff school.
 
as a parent no one wants there kid picked on or beat up or hurt in anyway. but what we are doing is making things worse. we try to shelter our kids now an protect them from everything bad. because of this they are not  able to handle it as well when it happens. here is an example. you have a kid an you place him in a bubble from birth/ no germs ever get  to this child. at 21 years old you let him out . he catches a common cold an dies. he never built up his immune system so when even the smallest issue came to him it was to much for him. we are doing the same to our kids. kids killing themselves over being called names now. when i was a kid we was told sticks an stones will break our bones but names will never hurt me. it does suck but you learn from it also.  all people have been picked on to some degree at some point. but the pain an suffering is as much a part of us as the good things. all of it has helped us grow into the adults we are today. if you try to remove all the bad from your life you would not be the same person an you would not be able to deal with things you can now. life isn't all pony's an rainbows an kids will never learn this the way we all keep trying to shelter them. we  as a country are becoming to over protective now. our pain makes us stronger in the long run

kaninja


Good for him.  Maybe the girls will learn there are consequences for their actions......because it looks like they are well on their way to becoming really useful members of society.

 
Given the parent may have driven to them the scene so they could do this in the first place, probably not. 
 
As for the school... more power to them. There are other schools they will attend.
 
If a crime like this was committed on school property it would require an expulsion, and honestly if they act like this on their own time they probably already were doing similar conduct while at the school.

kaninja

drunkie


i don't think a school should be allowed to punish kids for things that happen outside of school. i think the schools are crossing the line with this kinda stuff. what the kids do away from school should be addressed with the courts or the parents not the school

.....and when the courts and parents do nothing?  This is totally within the schools rights to protect the children that attend.  You can be sure that those girls were being no angels at school while at the same time marking that girls property with Swastikas......a symbol of a regime responsible for the worst genocidal atrocity against the Jewish people....and the police couldn't do anything because it could be washed away.....sickening.

Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of auspiciousness. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.

 
How crazy is that.

phades

drunkie
 
so now the schools can punish kids for anything that breaks school rules in or out of school? when you support things like this you gotta look at the bigger picture, not just this case. sure we all  know the girls shouldn't pull this crap but  when you allow a school a free hand to step outside there boundary's where does it stop?

So what happens when the traditional school model is no longer the norm? Where the "school grounds" extend into the internet and the child's home? The movement for change of school standards is ongoing and likely to be revamped within our lifetime. The children performed a criminal act, that is being overlooked due to a loophole and they are pursuing the only tangible avenue against the parent who condones criminal acts. This is no different than parents who support the "welfare lifestyle" and take no part in their children's upbringing relying on "the system" to do it for them. I really don't see a reason to balk when "the system" actually starts doing that act for the parents. Or would you prefer more stringent clauses in regard to child rearing, which would allow for CPS to remove kids in any "failing" home that involves any potential criminal act putting them as wards of the respective state? Personally I'd see that as far more reaching than what you are implying here would occur through your giant leap of logic.

+1  
This is a slipery slope where you may like the decision one day, then it goes against you the next.

@drunkie - I see where you're coming from and agree to an extent, but we all learn in the end how arbitrary all rules are and that it's the people placed in trust that have the final say, not a bunch of crap in writing. Whether that's right or wrong isn't the question, it's just a lame fact of life :/
 
@msim - can't say that getting spanked ever deterred me from doing anything, and it didn't work when it was allowed in schools either >_>
 
@jimmy - it depends how the swastika is drawn generally and the context. I doubt they were drawing a hindu symbol for fun...

MSim


A hate crime for drawing something on a sidewalk? 

Did you look at the picture or even read the article? It's on the pathway leading to their front door.....unless that is considered a "sidewalk" in some states.

drunkie
 

 

this has nothing to do with it. we have not supported the kids actions. but just cuz they are wrong for something doesn't mean we should twist laws over step boundary's. if you do then your actions are no better then the child. how can you tell a kid to respect whats right an wrong then turn around an not follow your own rules you set for them. it is action like that which create the mess. it's like telling a cop he doesn't have to follow the laws when he is trying to catch a criminal. if you do that now the cop is just as much a criminal as the criminal.

but as for the bully thing. on set days any white kid that went to school got jumped. many kids would skip cuz they was scared. then others would goto school an fight. those of us who was willing to fight back was left alone while the ones who ran didn't. we earned our respect. i went to a very very ruff school.

as a parent no one wants there kid picked on or beat up or hurt in anyway. but what we are doing is making things worse. we try to shelter our kids now an protect them from everything bad. because of this they are not  able to handle it as well when it happens. here is an example. you have a kid an you place him in a bubble from birth/ no germs ever get  to this child. at 21 years old you let him out . he catches a common cold an dies. he never built up his immune system so when even the smallest issue came to him it was to much for him. we are doing the same to our kids. kids killing themselves over being called names now. when i was a kid we was told sticks an stones will break our bones but names will never hurt me. it does suck but you learn from it also.  all people have been picked on to some degree at some point. but the pain an suffering is as much a part of us as the good things. all of it has helped us grow into the adults we are today. if you try to remove all the bad from your life you would not be the same person an you would not be able to deal with things you can now. life isn't all pony's an rainbows an kids will never learn this the way we all keep trying to shelter them. we  as a country are becoming to over protective now. our pain makes us stronger in the long run


You just don't get it..  It has everything to do with it.  What boundaries were bypassed?  These kids committed an act of vandalism in a horrid despicable way and by the looks of it they had parental asitance doing it.
 
 It's not a matter of just going to school and getting beat up anymore. If it were then it would be stand your ground and if you got beat up fine, but its not that way anymore. Kids today are relentless. They will single out someone out for their appearance, nationality religion etc and torment them non stop to the point where things like suicide or mass murder are viable options.  Its wrong.  It isn't a matter of creating a nanny state as you put it. It's a matter of trying to stop the cycle of hate. The parents of the these bullies are just as much to blame due to their failed parental skills as the children are for committing the acts.  Think about it if the parents are either refusing to discipline their child for being a bully or in the case such as this actually take part in it then what? By this they are teaching their children that this is perfectly acceptable social behavior.  Its just another example of the crumbling of morals and parental responsibility in our nation. It's not a matter of some parents trying to be over protect their children.
 
So what do you propose to fix the problem? have the kids that are tormented strike back? How about they turn to violence?  How about we let them all carry guns to school. Do you want to create a fear state where the slightest dirty look can get you shot?
 
seriously  by your example we should encourage our children to go beat the crap out of each other.. 
 
Violence is not the answer.