Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:28:26 GMT

I couldn't agree more- Now they are talking about wanting to be able to switch from individual screens to one spanned screen but at the same time having each individual display at 1080p.

I've talked about buying a controller like the one seen here http://www.multi-monitors.com/product_p/ivu9pro.htm

which would be easy to manage in terms of changing the configuration on what displayed where but they scoff at the lower res it is capable of. Also- I'm afraid high res video wouldn't be as smooth as desired with a device like that.

So basically I'm trying to get this across to those involved but I'm starting to think if I just say 'yeah it's all 1080p on each monitor' then they will stop asking questions and enjoy how nice it looks(even if it's slightly lower res).

We had looked at having Planar implement something but the cost was several tens of thousands. We're trying to stay in the 15k & lower range.

It's a battle between myself and marketing folks :/

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Tue, 14 Feb 2012 06:16:32 GMT

They do realize just what sort of hardware is required to push 5760x3240? They need to quit thinking in terms of nine 1080p displays and think in terms of 5760x3240 pixels and just what that entails as far as performance regardless of what hardware you use. We're talking in terms much larger than 4kHD. Seems like they fail to understand the cable bandwidth to the displays is fully saturated.

No matter what you do, you're pushing nine displays with the cable bandwidth of three displays, so something has to give in the process. It's the only way to get a 3x3 hardware accelerated grid with consumer level COTS hardware.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Mon, 13 Feb 2012 15:28:40 GMT

Well the decision makers around here really don't like the thought of not running all displays at 1920x1080 each. I try to tell them that it's not going to make a difference unless they have content at that high of a res but they're caught up in the marketing or something.

Anyway, as soon as the 7970 dc2 is in stock I will have one ordered and the TH2G's. Going to test it with each monitor running at 1600x900.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:11:38 GMT

Cool, I'll keep you updated on the testing, thanks again for sharing your experience :)

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:01:55 GMT

nomadnomad7

hmm, so I can go from TH2G - > dp -> DVI dingle link then -> hdmi or vga for the display? BUT, only at 1920x1080 @ 50hz or 1680x1050 @ 60hz per display. hmmm, I don't think LED tv's (or the monitors for that matter) will take a 50hz signal so I suppose I'm stuck at 16080x1050.

time to go back to pricing some NEC 1366x768 displays...

1366x768 displays should work fine. Just confirmed with the Matrox display resolution list. Most likely be a more cost effective solution anyways and less stressful on the GPU pushing 720p 3x3 grid.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:59:30 GMT

nomadnomad7

I should add- Now that I'm searching it looks like Active DP to HDMI doesn't exist? only passive.

So Would active DP to DVI-D and then DVI-D to hdmi adapter work?

EDIT: found this

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042801&p_id=5135&seq=1&format=2

Says ACTIVE adapter for DP to VGA, would that work to go from the TH2G to the displays to retain the 1080 per display?

For each row of 3x1 you'd have:
Video card DP -> Matrox TH2G DP -> DP to DVI single-link active adapter (times 3) (Newegg has the active adapters) -> DVI-HDMI cable (times 3) (Monoprice has the DVI-HDMI cables)
Then just do the above three times to fill out the grid.

Correct, there are no active DP-to-HDMI adapters. HDMI spec group refuses to license the option. So you need to go DP-to-DVI then DVI-HDMI cable.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:59:25 GMT

hmm, so I can go from TH2G - > dp -> DVI dingle link then -> hdmi or vga for the display? BUT, only at 1920x1080 @ 50hz or 1680x1050 @ 60hz per display. hmmm, I don't think LED tv's (or the monitors for that matter) will take a 50hz signal so I suppose I'm stuck at 16080x1050.

time to go back to pricing some NEC 1366x768 displays...

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 22:50:49 GMT

nomadnomad7

Okay, so I think I've got a relatively good idea thanks to your advice.

A 6970 ACII or when available a 7970 ACII then DP to three TH2G, then from each TH2G could I use 'passive DP to VGA' or 'passive DP to HDMI adapters? Or would the final adapter going from the TH2G to the display have to be active?

I ask because of a) the cost difference in pass/active adapters and b), the displays will be 46" led lcd TVs which only have vga or hdmi, not DP or even DVI.

I've more or less got the approval to go forward so I should be able to start testing this(on 9 smaller 1080p displays we have first)

Should be interesting! I really hope the 7970 ACII comes out like this week or next as I'd love the extra horsepower.

All the TH2G will need active DP to single-link DVI on the outputs. That would mean 9 x $25 for the adapters. This is why mixing DP and DVI/HDMI is problematic. Can't do the setup without DP use though. Also, be mindful that if you want 60hz the displays will need to scale to 1680x1050. Matrox DP boxes only do 1920x1080 at 50hz. 1680x1050 on each display shouldn't be an issue though. This is strictly a bandwidth cable issue. No way getting around it. If the core need is 3x3, this is the only reasonable way to do it.

Looks like ASUS has to be ready to roll out the DCII cards again soon because the 6970 and 6950 cards are showing finally deactivated on Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121430
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121437
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121431

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 21:57:51 GMT

I should add- Now that I'm searching it looks like Active DP to HDMI doesn't exist? only passive.

So Would active DP to DVI-D and then DVI-D to hdmi adapter work?

EDIT: found this

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10428&cs_id=1042801&p_id=5135&seq=1&format=2

Says ACTIVE adapter for DP to VGA, would that work to go from the TH2G to the displays to retain the 1080 per display?

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 20:45:54 GMT

Okay, so I think I've got a relatively good idea thanks to your advice.

A 6970 ACII or when available a 7970 ACII then DP to three TH2G, then from each TH2G could I use 'passive DP to VGA' or 'passive DP to HDMI adapters? Or would the final adapter going from the TH2G to the display have to be active?

I ask because of a) the cost difference in pass/active adapters and b), the displays will be 46" led lcd TVs which only have vga or hdmi, not DP or even DVI.

I've more or less got the approval to go forward so I should be able to start testing this(on 9 smaller 1080p displays we have first)

Should be interesting! I really hope the 7970 ACII comes out like this week or next as I'd love the extra horsepower.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 18:52:13 GMT

There should be an ASUS DCII out soon enough with 4 mDP and 2 DVI. It'll have enough mDP to cover things. Either that or jsut get a current ASUS DCII 6970 or 6950.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Tue, 31 Jan 2012 09:21:33 GMT

Thanks for all the great info Brad!

I've suggested some testing using 9 smaller LCDs that we have in house along with 3 TH2G boxes and a 7970.

The 7970 only has two miniDP ports along with the dvi/hdmi.

The monitors(for testing and for the final implementation) only have the usual dvi/vga/hdmi inputs.

So am I correct in understanding that because the 7970 only has two miniDP ports I wouldn't be able to run 5760x1080 to each of the 3 panel sets? Due to the third port on the card being DVI-

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 18:15:45 GMT

nomadnomad7

Thanks for the info Brad. They are based off of LCD monitors and it's looking like the decision is for 3x3 1080p panels.

What would be the ideal setup then for 3x3?

Something like a 6990 with three TH2G ? So then the top three panels would be seen as 1 single 5760x1080 panel, then the second row and so forth? Then use Eyefinity to group those three large sets into a single panel?

Also, would I need to use the Displayport version of the TH2G if I were to go with AMD?

This is great info, thanks :)

Crossfire is going to be largely useless in a video wall configuration. You're going to want to shoot the the best single GPU option. That'll be either 6970 or 7970. The 6990 is dual GPU. You'll never get proper use of the second GPU on that card.

Yep, you use the Matrox boxes like you mention where Eyefinity sees the three displays as one horizontal triple span and you do a 1x3 Eyefinity grouping of the Matrox boxes.

I would definitely suggest the DP version. DP to Dual-Link DVI Active adapters are expensive. The Dual-Link ones are required for pushing resolutions over 1920x1200 -- which 5760x1080 is. If at all possible get LCD panels with DP ports so you don't need to screw with dp-dvi adapters at all. Adapters are the largest single headache when it comes to setting up multi-display.

Be mindful that if you mix DP and DVI/HDMI use that it'll require active adapters somewhere in the chain of cabling. I can diagram out everything for you if you like. It's highly dependent on the display you end up picking though. Once I know your options, I can better explain the setup.

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:24:47 GMT

Thanks for the info Brad. They are based off of LCD monitors and it's looking like the decision is for 3x3 1080p panels.

What would be the ideal setup then for 3x3?

Something like a 6990 with three TH2G ? So then the top three panels would be seen as 1 single 5760x1080 panel, then the second row and so forth? Then use Eyefinity to group those three large sets into a single panel?

Also, would I need to use the Displayport version of the TH2G if I were to go with AMD?

This is great info, thanks :)

Re:Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (Brad_Hawthorne)

Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:22:04 GMT

2x2 can be done with only Eyefinity. 3x3 can be done with NV Surround+3 Matrox TH2G or AMD Eyefinity+3 Matrox TH2G. You can mix AMD Eyefinity display options with symmetrical use of Matrox DH2G/TH2G boxes to double or triple your display grid size. With how limited NV is for this application I'd only suggest AMD at the moment for this sort of thing.

There are other E6 capable cards newer than the 5870 E6. The ASUS DCII 6970 and 6950 being prime example of 6-port cards. Sapphire will soon release a 7970 E6 6GB card.

It's largely irrelevant that it's not for gaming. Video uses DirectX and OpenGL accelerated rendering engines too that have the same display limitations and demands as games.

Are your video walls LCD based or projector? My specialization is projector based setups.

Video Wall Solutions? 2x2 3x3 (nomadnomad7)

Sun, 29 Jan 2012 22:56:02 GMT

Hello mutli-monitor geeks-

So I'm relatively familiar with 3x1 configurations with nvidia and ati using eyefinity and NV surround but I'm trying to get more info on 4 panel and 9 panel arrangements. I've done some research into solutions aimed more towards business use, like static images and information screens, things you would see at the airport but I've read that most of them aren't very smooth for playing video. (examples would be the Matrox cards)

Other than the 5870 eyefinity edition are there any other solutions without using software such as softTH to run 6 monitors as a single display? I saw in another thread the possibility of a 7970 eyefinity in the near future which looks promising for a single card 6 monitor display.

Can you run 4 or 9 monitors off of a 6990 or 6990CF as a single display?

I should mention that this isn't really going to be used for gaming, but more video and graphic animations. Would like a resolution of 1920x1080 per panel for a total of 5760x3240 or 3840x2160 depending on the 9 panel or 4 panel setup.

-Appreciate any info!